In a Quandary - Help Needed

Paul,

it won't take commands or it just stops

Not taking commands could be a DCS problem. Stopping is not a DCS problem, rather it's a power problem. The two are different.

Harley,

   That engineering should work as you layed it out, however I got a hunch as to what your problems is, test it in this way, By pass your Atlas connector switch and connect your terminal block, neg to the outside rail and pos to the mid.  Now manually set your switches so you can access your last siding.  Run your engine in and see what happens.

PCRR/Dave

Right where you diagram says train direction with the arrow, I'm not sure why you have an insulating pin there? The Switch at the left side has a insulating pin on the straight, I'd leave it and put another one on  the same switch  on the diverging route.

You have FOUR tracks, though, including your "track before the wye", and I don't see where you have power, switched or otherwise, to that section in your narrative or drawing.  This would cause your symptoms.

Rob - the direct power comes from the terminal block to the connector switch and directly to each of the 3 tracks (middle rail).  Power for the turnouts come from the lower left picture of the track.  

I was just in my train building and had a revelation - is it possible that no insulating pins would be needed AT ALL??  Since DCS controls the ON-OFF of each engine my thoughts are why use insulating pins.  Please comment on my "revelation".

Well. that was my 1st question, but that comes up all the time and I assumed you needed to power down those sidings for some reason.

And actually, again I assumed you had a connector switch for each siding but left them off for clarity in the diagram, if you go strictly as drawn, only the bottom siding(5) will ever have power or a DCS signal.   No power to (2), (3), or (4).

Where is the power for section (2)?

the track makes a complete loop back to the wye - that entire section of track that you don't see is powered.

And actually, again I assumed you had a connector switch for each siding but left them off for clarity in the diagram, if you go strictly as drawn, only the bottom siding(5) will ever have power or a DCS signal.   No power to (2), (3), or (4).

Each siding is directly connected to the Connector Switch - I didn't show it for clarity. 

Rob - Since I'm kinda new to the DCS system I think I was still thinking in conventional mode!

OK... now I see.  As you can clearly see now, there is no function whatsoever to the insulator on the wye, except it degrades the track power and the DCS signal.  Replace it with regular connecting pin(s).

This may also be disrupting both power & the DCS signal to the siding lead too, as some Ross switches do not provide electrical continuity through all branches, unless feeders are placed by the installer.

Rob - I am removing all 4 insulator pins - no need for them with DCS!

thanx for your advice and help

Paul

 is it possible that no insulating pins would be needed AT ALL??  Since DCS controls the ON-OFF of each engine my thoughts are why use insulating pins.

Unfortunately, your revelation is incorrect. The blocking effect cuts down on DCS data packet collisions and improves DCS signal strength.

Rob - Since I'm kinda new to the DCS system I think I was still thinking in conventional mode!

Actually conventional mode wiring is an excellent way to go for dcs IF and a big  IF you're wiring for dual cab-control  using something like a KW.    The blocks created with conventional cab control are very similar to dcs wiring although dcs like longer blocks. No need for DPDT center off toggles  unless you want to toggle down a block, An on/off toggle will work just fine or your Atlas selector.

Barry - not quite sure what "data packet collisions" are - I'm assuming its information that is being transmitted from the TIU to the engine.

I'm also thinking that what Dave said may be true too.  Maybe the signal passing through the Atlas Connector is weakened - I'll first try to bypass the connector and see what happens (less work than taking up track and removing pins).

Harley,
   Just give it a try and see what happens, sometimes the switches can be the

real problem, destroy the signal, and sometimes a faulty switch will eliminate a multi siding set up like the one you have constructed completely.

PCRR/Dave

Just returned from my layout - I decided to eliminate the use of the 4 insulating pins without disconnecting the wires to the Atlas Selectors.  I did this because it was easier than "rewiring".  I then ran some engines over the switches and into the yard - NO PROBLEM!!!  Everything is working great! I'm going to disconnect the wires now to the Atlas Selectors and direct those wires to the terminal block like all the others.

Thanx Dave, Gregg, Barry and Rob for your advice - once again the "OGR Forum" boys came through!

Harley,

   Glad we could help you get the problem straightened out, have fun with your layout.

PCRR/Dave

Paul,

I hope things are running well for you. There might be some advantage to having the option of powering off the three sidings. You could then park engines on the sidings, turn off the power and not have electricity running through the engines and circuit boards and putting hours on the chronometer. You could do this by keeping the insulating pin in the center rail of each siding and then have power to the siding past the insulating pin that can be toggled off. I just don't like electricity running through the engines when they are not in use.

Ed

Ed - that's the way I originally had the sidings set up.  For some reason my engines acted irratically when on the siding and passing over the switches (see my description above).  When I took all the insulating pins out the engines worked flawlessly.

Go figure

Paul,

You're probably best off leaving things as they are if everything is running well. I always like trying to figure these things out thinking that if you can follow the flow of the current that there ought to be a workable solution. If you take the insulating pin out of the track before the Wye and you have electricity going to the sidings and you still have siding problems, then I wonder if the ground is getting to the siding properly. Sometimes only one of the outer rails in track that has plastic ties is connected to the ground loop. It might be interesting to try connecting the two outer rails before the wye with an aligator clip and then seeing how the trains run through the switch and into the sidings. 

Ed

Thanx Ed - right now I'd rather not reinstall the insulating pins etc and try your "alligator clip" test.   Since everything is running fine now I'll leave it as is.  I do have drops on the track about every 6-8 feet with both outside rails grounded.

Words to the wise.

Don't fix stuff that ain't broke!