In what order do you run your passenger cars?

Mine's the same as yours.

Seaboard Air Line was reported to run their cars with the vestibule ends facing rearward so in case of a wreck the doors may still be in working order.

When I was placing cars I tried to imagine the order of things.  Would the RR want it's VIP riders (in an observation car) walking thru a coach on their way to the dining car?  They would also probably not want people in coaches walking thru sleepers to get to the dining car either.

One exception to the rearward doors may be with Seaboard's Sun-Lounger cars, the lounge area just looks right in the rear (which would put the doors forward), but I think I've photos of them both ways.

Of course, I'm sure there's plenty of instances where a car couldn't be turned around and had to face which ever way in came in.

Actual order of cars most likely varied to some degree from train to train. From the ICC Accident report  for the N&W 611 derailment back in 1956, the order of cars for that train was listed as:"one express car, one mail car, four coaches, one tavern car, one dining car, and three sleeping cars, in the order named".

The ICC Accident report for the 604 in 1946 listed the order of cars as:  "three coaches, one dining car, and three coaches".

Gilly

You will probably find examples of any arrangement you can think of depending on the operational requirements of the railroad for the route, day and time.  I personally run my through train in this order:  combine, coach, coach, chair, chair, kitchen, diner, parlor, sleeper, sleeper, sleeper, sleeper, observation.  Except for the two coaches and one sleeper, which are heavyweights, the cars are streamliners.

Ron 

Don't forget the RPO.

Back in the day, many trains would be worked during the course of their trip, so blocking the cars for easier access would sometimes enter in.  The obs. car would still have to go on the stern, thus helping to explain why these guys disappeared early on. Fixed consist trains could be turned en-block, and stay in good order.   When we caught the Silver Meteor and the Broadway W/B at Elizabeth, the car order was nearly always the same.   Not so with lesser trains.

I generally run baggage, RPO, coach, diner, Pullman, observation.

Mitch

I run mine Express boxcar, RPO, baggage, coaches, diner, sleepers, observation. I guess it does matter if you are trying to replicate a certain railroads consist. The way I understand passenger ops., the RPO should be close to the front because only Postal workers were allowed to enter the car and placing any cars in front of it would mean that train personnel could not gain access to those cars while the train was under way. Typically, the premium cars, i.e. sleepers would go to the rear where it was quieter due to their distance from the motive power. I like my dining cars near the center of the trains so passengers on each end have an equal distance to get there. O-gauge people are very slow and this really helps.

[Probably] not completely accurate, but here's the order I run them:

1. Locomotive(s)
2. Express reefer/box car
3. RPO
4. Baggage and/or Baggage-Dorm/Baggage-Combo
5. Coach(es)
6. Dome
7. Diner
8. Sleeper(s)
9. Lounge/Observation

I'd run mine as Mike D, with any combines in ahead of the coaches, but behind

the baggage car(s).  I am sure trains like the Rock Island that used to split off half

to take to Denver and half to send to Colorado Springs, probobly had something

like two duplicate consists coupled, when leaving Chicago.

For mixed trains, with no other caboose, the combine goes on the end, if switching

moves dictate it, there can be a caboose behind the end combine, or the combine

may be behind the tender, with caboose on the end.

Baggage, RPO, combine, coach, coach, coach, diner, sleeper, sleeper, observation.

Baggage,Combine,Coach,Coach,Diner,Observation Car.   

That set-up would not be logical for two reasons:

1) The railroad would NOT want passengers walking through the baggage portion of a combine car, in order to get to the diner.

2) The diner USUALLY separated the first class cars from the coach cars, i.e. the first class passengers on the rear portion of the train didn't have to walk all the way through the coaches (second class fares), in order to get to the diner.

Hotwater thats how my cars are numbered thats how i do it in that order. 

The same as Mike O: Head-end cars, coaches, diner, dome, sleepers, observation. If there's a bar car it goes in the middle too, except on the early Hiawatha where the Tip Top Tap was combined with the express car and so goes at the head end. 

As long as the observation is last, I assemble them in random order depending on what I grab first.

Express boxcar, Baggage, RPO, Coach(s), Dome Car,  Diner, Coach(s), Sleeper(s), Observation.

Well, referring back to the original posters question, he specifically inquired about the PROPER order of passenger cars. I, and apparently everyone else, assumed he was inquiring about REAL railroad practices.

I don't know what numbers you are referring to on your model cars, but that certainly would NOT have been how a real railroad would assemble their passenger cars. As I stated, there would have been no way passengers would have been allowed to wander through the baggage room portion of a combine car in order to gain access to the diner.

My NYC 20th Century Limited is Dreyfuss Hudson, baggage, sleeper, sleeper, sleeper, dome, diner, observation.  Although sometimes I swap the dome and diner.

My other is local mixed, so locomotive, freight cars, caboose, combine, coach.

The NYC 20th Century had dome cars?  That sure must have been an interesting sight in Grand Central Terminal.

Hotwater sorry!!!I had to go look at my old video. I had them in right order on the video but i don't run passenger trains to much. I was thinking diner went up next to the front.

Locomotive

Baggage

Combine

Coach

Coach

Diner

Dome

Sleeper

Sleeper

Parlor/Observation

Except when running NYC.  Then the dome car goes as they wouldn't fit through the tunnels on the water level route.  And, to my knowledge, the NYC didn't have any dome cars.  Even Lionel knew that.

Bob

All Lionel Streamliners.: PFE Express from Icing Station, RPO (from Combo, re-badged with AMT plates), Milk Car, Horse Car (well? Thoroughbreds don't travel by freight), Baggage, Coach, Coach, Vista Dome, Full Dome, Sleeper, Dining, Observation. Basic 5-car PW#2500 Series plus modern-era cars. 

Heavyweights: Express Boxcar, Williams 5-car Madisons - Baggage, Combo, Coach, Coach, Lionel Baby Madison Diner, Observation.

I also run 027: Lionel PRR from the 90's (full set, can't remember how many cars, quite a variety) headed up with the PW 027 Merchandise Car and Milk Car, and K-Line NH: Combo, Coach, Diner, Observation.

Dome cars in Grand Central Terminal? Wow!

Baggage, RPO, Combine, Coach, Coach, Diner, Dome, Sleeper, Observation.

Rick

I always place the observation car at the end, my Army consist is another story.

Steve, Lady and Tex

For Santa Fe El Capitan (FYI - GGD will realease full 12-car set in the not too distant future) all the "El Cap" cars (from Baggage-Dorm to the step down Chair car w/ tail sign) was always run in a very specific order.  That being:

Baggage (storage mail)
Baggage
Baggage-Dormitory (transition car)
Hi-Level 68-Seat Step Down Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level Diner
Hi-Level Lounge
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 72-Seat Chair Car
Hi-Level 68-Seat Step Down Chair Car

I have been told, on VERY GOOD authority, that the storage mail car was run directly behind the power and in front of the baggage car for additional security.

The RPO's and Baggage Cars listed here were a pool shared by all ATSF passenger trains.

Budd 63' Railway Post Office #89-98

Budd 73' Baggage Car #3500-3554

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here are the number ranges for the entire El Capitan fleet.

P-S 85' Baggage-Dormitory Transition Car #3477-3482

Budd 85' Hi-Level 68-Seat Step Down Coach #528-537

Budd 85' Hi-Level 72-Seat Coach #700-724

Budd 85' Hi-Level "Sky Lounge" #575-580

Budd 85' Hi-Level Diner #650-655

The Santa Fe made no distinction between the Step-Down Coaches used at the front of rear of the train.  The tail sign and red light were not fixed items and so they could be used on any of the 10 Step-Downs.

As you can see there are enough cars for 5 complete 12-car El Cap trains.  That is because at any given time there were 2 westbound from Chicago to L.A. and 2 eastbound L.A. to Chicago. The fifth set was being serviced in one or the other terminus locations. 

FYI - the entire El Capitan was WYE'd at both Chicago and LA to assure that the order of the "El Cap" cars remained constant. 

The Santa Fe took great pride in their Super Chief and El Capitan trains. Therefore, by insisting that the cars always be assembled in the same order was just another detail to maintain consistancy.

I can't speak for other railroads, so you guys can insert your RPO's where ever you choose, I'm just telling you how the Santa Fe did theirs.

FWIW, the New York Central's 20th Century Ltd which ran between New York and Chicago usually ran in two sections; each with 14 cars (sometimes as many as 16 cars).  The first section departed 10 minutes prior to the second section.  The car names & numbers varied but the consist remained the same whether east bound or west bound:

#5450 - J3a 4-6-4 streamlined Hudson Locomotive & Tender

#5018 - Baggage 60’ Railway Post Office Car

CENTURY CLUB - 18 Crew Dormitory Barber Shop Bar 30 seat Lounge Car

CASCADE GLORY - 10 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

COOK COUNTY - 13 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

CITY OF DAYTON - 17 Roomette Sleeping Car

IMPERIAL CANYON - 4 Compartment 2 Drawing Room 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

IMPERIAL FOREST - 4 Compartment 2 Drawing Room 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

#680 - 38 seat Dining Car

IMPERIAL GARDEN - 4 Compartment 2 Drawing Room 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

WESTCHESTER COUNTY - 13 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

CITY OF CHICAGO - 17 Roomette Sleeping Car

CASCADE ROCKS - 10 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

CASCADE SPIRIT - 10 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car

MANHATTAN ISLAND - 1 Double Bdrmm 1 Master Room Bar 22 seat Lounge 10 seat Lounge Observation

Don't ask where the coaches were - this was the Central's crack, first class passenger service between these two great cities - no cheap seats here!

Best,

Dave

Locomotive, another locomotive, a third locomotive, express boxcar, RPO, baggage, baggage, coach, coach, diner, Pullman, Pullman, lounge, observation, Merrill, Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, Smith, Batton, Barton, Durstine, Osborn, Hungerdunger, Hungerdunger, Hungerdunger, Hungerdunger, Hungerdunger, Hungerdunger and McCormick.

Mitch

I'm not an expert, but:

I always run the baggage car first.

If I have a "half baggage car/half coach/crew-whatever" I run that next with the baggage section up front.

I run the observation car at the rear.  

In between, I try to put the diner where it makes sense, between coach and sleepers, etc., and arrange the rest so they look good.

As for what pulls it, I like to have to A units and at least one B.

Commuter trains probably did not matter much and were mostly coaches anyway.   LI did have some first class cars however.

The general rule for long distance trains with a mix of cars for both first class and coach as follows:

Mail and Express (if any)

Baggage

Coach

Diner

First Class Cars (sleepers, lounge, Observation)

Observation at rear

In steam days the last cars on a train were quieter and cleaner than since they were farther from the locomotive.   Hence the higher fare cars were placed at the rear.  

I think at least in steam days, passengers could access the baggage car although it was probably not encouraged.    Mail and Express cars were definitely off limits to passengers.

A lot depends on how big your layout is.  I don't have room for long passenger trains, so for me, it's usually:

Express reefer

RPO

Combine

coach

coach

Trains run in sections are something you can tinker with.  In some cases, all the head end stuff would be launched on the second section....baggage, RPOs etc.  In that case you can have first class cars, or whatever, right behind the motive power of the first secton.  Look at the PRR 1938 calender, midnight with the S1.  Sleeper right behind the tender. This is stylized for sure, but it was possible.  A first section could also, if there was enough advance notice, be set up to run en-block / complete from terminal to terminal....and leave the dirty work for the second section.   I run a hypothetical mail and express train in O gauge that runs from Boston to Chicago via the NH, and PRR. Motive power changes often, but the consist, not as much.  Passenger trains can be a ton of fun, as you spice up the operation....part of the reason why they were a giant PITA for the real roads !

I go on-line and look at what the actual consist was for each passenger train in the inventory. Then I attempt to replicate it based upon the passenger cars I have. At the very least, it gives you a starting point.

I always run the observation last cause there's no coupler on the round end. That means the other car goes first.   LOL

I'm not overly concerned but at least try to get it close to correct.  I usually run:

1. Baggage

2. RPO

3. Coach

$. Diner

6. Coach

7. Sleepers

8. Observation

My primary passenger trains are replicas of cross country trains or locals.  I also run Chicago Metra.

Art

IIRC, almost always the RPO was the lead car (or express reefers first) then the baggage cars, etc. There was a distinct protocol to assure as much as possible that no passengers could gain access to the RPO. Back then, the mail also carried special handling items like bank notes, bonds, certificates, etc. The clerks even packed side arms. Times have changed; nowadays, a mail clerk with a side arm would be slammed by a SWAT team.

Neil

Hello - This is my first time, trying to replay with a You Tube Video on this topic, Order of Passenger Cars. Hope it works.