Insurance on your trains?

I use American Collectors Insurance. The cost per year is not high in my opinion and is worth having for peace of mind.

Yes, I did this recently.  Will never look back.

Volpin,

   My new home owners policy covers it pretty well, I am thinking about adding an additional rider like I do for my wife's large Lladro collection.  I do keep the pictures so that if anything happens there is absolute proof the all these different personal possessions, were here in our home. 

PCRR/Dave 

I believe that JA Bash is also the underwriter for insurance available through the NMRA. I used the NMRA program when it was under a subsidiary of American Bankers, and at the time, a friend was working for American Bankers (not as a salesperson), and he assured me that the NMRA policies included a group discount. It seemed pretty reasonable at the time, but I dropped it when the NMRA switched to the new company because the premiums went way up, and it seemed like the coverage wasn't as complete. I later heard that one of the reasons the cost went up was that there no longer was a group discount, plus the NMRA was receiving a commission that was kicked back from the insurer. Although I was never able to get solid proof that this was the case! I do know the NMRA was strapped for $$ at the time to fund things like a headquarters office, museum & library, and salaries for a paid director and several employees. In any event, the new cost for the insurance was way beyond my budget, so I dropped it. That was many years ago, and maybe things have changed. So far, I've been lucky in that I haven't needed any insurance, but I should crunch the numbers and look into it again. Living in South Florida, I have seen how insurance companies have such a bad reputation because of how the automobile and homeowners rates are so high and the insurance commission seems to be in the pocket of the companies.

Bill in FtL

I use Americans Collector Insurance and rates are reasonable and provide good service.

What exactly are you insured for?

Fire, Flood, theft?  If you have a Full replacement coverage on your home owners, wouldn't that count?

What about accidental damage?  Say you just dropped your $2,000 Big Boy on the floor.  Are you covered?

Ron

Homeowners usually doesn't cover collections beyond a nominal dollar amount.

Timely discussion. I have been talking to my insurance agent about this. My homeowner's policy covers my trains, but they are subject to the policy's deductible. If I add separate coverage for trains the deductible does not apply, they would just cover the loss up to the amount of coverage I have. This didn't seem like a lot, but compared to what you get for homeowner coverage it was high. What is a reasonable price for say $5,000 of train coverage, no deductible? Maybe I will check out some of the places mentioned in this thread.

I also use the TCA. They don't require a list.

At what point does "a lot of neat toys" become a "collection" subject to a limit of coverage?

Have any of you had a significant loss under insurance for collectables and what

actually was your experience in reimbursement?  I'm thinking of covering my stuff

now that it's a fairly decent-sized bunch of trains.  My homeowners is only good for

the first $500 of loss.

     Hoppy

I think its absolutely necessary.  I have used Collectors Insurance Services for years.  They do not require and inventory, there is an allocation for growth of your collection during the year and at renewal, you can increase your coverage amount if needed.  No issues with them, but I never had to use it either!

If you were former military or current military look into USAA or Armed Forces Insurance.

They have riders you add to your policies to include Electric Trains, Gun collections, or collectible collections. You have to supply itemized documentation, and the prices are reasonable

Usually a dollar amount listed in your coverage like 5000 or so.

I understand there are limits for collections, but what is the distinction between a "train collection" and "a lot of toy trains that I play with in the basement".

Everything I have is easily replaceable with similar recent production or current items, like clothes or appliances, and wasn't amassed as a "collection", just toys.

So, at what point does it become subject to a coverage limit? This would be an important consideration in whether additional specific coverage is needed, as I am right now severely over insured on my contents coverage now.

Rob, You can insure anything regardless of classification.  My silver trumpet is insured with a SF rider for 5K, and Jen's diamonds are insured for 30K.  It doesn't have to be a collection per se, just some items you would like full replacement value.  I think I pay $100 annually for my riders to this point.  I do need to check in with USAA, as I have policies with them as well.

Also with USAA if your Dad was a military member they will insure the children of a member just in case you were not a military service member.

OK, but those two items ARE subject to coverage limits, and a pittance at that, without scheduling them specifically as you have done.

And, I have replacement cost coverage already. So the question remains, at what point, if any, would an insurance company try to weasel out of paying, let's say a $18,000.00 claim on my trains(as toys) by imposing a $2500 "collectibles" limit on them?

Just renewed mine with this company.  At the time when I first signed up it was Cheaper than what the TCA was offering.

http://www.collectinsure.com/g...Cq0MMCFbNZ7AodQDsAgw

First, almost everything I have is new within the last four years or so. Everything is just ordinary old trains or train sets of ordinary value for recently purchased trains. Nothing collectible, special or particularly difficult to replace.

I am going to re-check this with my insurance man after reading all this, just to clarify with him. As I understood him a couple of months ago, trains would be covered under the household contents coverage. I don't remember him stating a dollar amount other than the limit for contents?

However, under that contents coverage, trains would be subject to the deductible which is 1% of the total policy. The rider I asked about for trains only would cover just the trains up to the amount of coverage purchased, with no deductible. They did want a list of all the trains with values in order to purchase the rider.

The insurance policy offered by J.A. Bash and Company though the TCA for blanket coverage which means up to I believe up to $100,000 (one hundred thousand dollars) does not require an itemized list. This coverage has a $250.00 deductible and covers 80% of the insurance policies coverage amount. For example if a policy is for $50,000 dollars the policy coverage is good for up to $37,500 and costs $375.00 plus $5.00 to the TCA a year, one percent of the insurance coverage.

This topic can get you in trouble really fast. What I am going to write applies on a general basis. I was an active property casualty independent agent in Virginia for 39 years and still hold my licenses.

Homeowners insurance is written on 4-5 different forms. While many states use the same forms, edition dates may differ or there may be state specific endorsements that apply. We are near the coast, did a lot of business in North Carolina, and had to be very careful in designing coverage. What applies here does not necessarily apply fifteen miles away.

I rely on my homeowners policy for coverage, don't have a separate property floater on trains, and am satisfied to have the normal policy deductible apply. If I drop our new Big Boy, I better leave home because it isn't insured and my wife will be screaming.

If global warming or a cat 4 hurricane floods Suffolk, Virginia, I am not covered. (Warning - coverage for water damage can be tricky).

My policy doesn't mention collectibles and the policy definitions do not define that term. I suspect that many of you have similar coverage. I have no maximum limit on collectibles as I do on jewelry, coins, guns, silver, etc.

Some of you have a property floater, either attached to your homeowners policy or separate. You might have an overall amount of insurance, specific amounts on scheduled items, etc. These often have more flexibility, broader coverage, a lower deductible, and an additional cost.

Some companies offer special products thru a sponsoring group (TCA) or may specialize in insurance for customers with specific needs (Collectors). These may offer advantages to you not available thru your homeowners carrier such as:

   Broader coverage - Flood, earthquake, etc or maybe "all risk" (a scary term) which says that we cover everything and then proceed to exclude what we don't cover.

    Knowledge of your specific interests - The company that provides TCA's coverage undoubtedle has some employees who know a lot more than simply how to spell TRAINS.

    Better pricing. I checked TCA and they indicate a rate of .60 per $100 value for one plan and .75 per $100 for another. Better than my homeowners can do.

    Different valuation provisions in the case of a loss. To hard to explain here but ask your agent what is paid in the event of a loss. Replacement cost and stated amount is not always as good as it sounds. Beware actual cash value and what replacement cost means. 

Hopefully this will help some. The best advice that I can give you is to talk to your insurance agent. He should know what he is talking about and be in the best position to advise you.

Then READ YOUR POLICY. These toy trains that we all enjoy so much can be really expensive, often a good bit more than our spouse has been told. It can really save some heartburn if we know what we have before the loss takes place. Don't just take someone else's word for it, take some time and read what you have. 

The first of the week I will call TCA and probably the agency that provides their coverage and get some policy forms. I will come back here and advise what I find or, even better, it would make a good OGR article if one has not been done in recent years. The agency or company would probably be glad to help.

Thank you Bill for your contribution.

That is why I appreciate USAA as I worked out the details with them for my gun collection and they use the same formula for Trains, airplanes etc. They will walk you through it.

Thank you for your help

Ed New Haven

I just read what you wrote and am not trying to be ugly in any way but this is a good example of where the insurance stuff is so confusing. The blanket policy requires an amount of insurance that is at least 80% of the replacement cost value or, in the event of a partial loss, you won't collect 100% of the amount of insurance.

If you have a limit of $100,000 and the replacement cost is 110,000, you will receive the replacement cost less the deductible subject to a limit of $100,000. And I had better add, assuming other things comply. You have at least 80% insurance to replacement cost.

If you have total replacement values of $200,000, have $100,000 insurance, you will only receive a percentage of the loss. This is called co-insurance and it's too deep for here.

Send me an e-mail if you want more info.

Great info Bill!  Please do keep us posted...  You are right, this would be a great article for OGR indeed!  Even an online lunch & learn would be helpful.  Does anyone have the policy text for TCA?.

This is generally used for building replacement cost, not contents. Due to the extremely high cost of materials and labor for replacement today , your policy limits are typically much higher than the appraised property value.

As a side effect of that higher limit, your contents coverage is pulled up with that, as it is typically 50-70% of the dwelling limit. This is where I end up being over insured, literally as a result of high building costs and my desire to keep the dwelling fully insured.

I have a high end HO-7 homeowner's policy which is all-risk for the dwelling(typical), and for the contents too(atypical), subject to specific exclusions.  The policy also has higher  limits for categories like furs, jewelry, cash, coins and stamps, precious metals, guns, boats, silverware.

I did just check my policy, and there is no limitation on trains or collectibles other than these specific categories(I included typical HO-3 coverages too for comparison on the above items mentioned:

Property Coverage B - Other Structures HO-3 10% HO-7 20%

Coverage C - Personal Property HO-3 50% HO-7 70%

Special Limits of Liability:

Money, Bank Notes HO-3 200 HO-7 500

Securities, Accounts HO-3 1,500 HO-7 5,000

Watercraft HO-3 1,500 HO-7 2,500

Trailers HO-3 1,500 HO-7 2,500

Loss of Jewelry, Furs* HO-3 1,500 HO-7 5,500

Loss of Firearms & Related Equipment HO-3 2,500 HO-7 5,000

Loss of Silverware* HO-3 2,500 HO-7 5,000

On-Premises Business Property HO-3 2,500 HO-7 10,000

Off-Premises Business Property HO-3 500 HO-7 1,000

Pre-Recorded Computer Programs HO-3 Not Covered HO-7 Covered

Additional Coverages

Trees, Shrubs HO-3 1,000 HO-7 1,000

Credit Card HO-3 1,000 HO-7 10,000

Loss Assessment HO-3 1,000 HO-7 10,000

Food Spoilage HO-3 NO HO-7 YES

Lock Replacement HO-3 NO HO-7 YES

Reward Coverage HO-3 NO HO-7 YES

Water Back Up from Sewers/Drains/Sumps HO-3 NO HO-7 2,000

SECTION I - PERILS INSURED AGAINST

Coverage C(contents) HO-3 Named Peril HO-7 All Risk

SECTION I - CONDITIONS A.

Personal Property Replacement Cost HO-3 NO HO-7 YES

So, it looks like the "collector's" insurance is not necessary for me. The collectors policies provide coverage for special circumstances - shows/sales/meets/storage/transportation etc. that I wouldn't typically need.

All good insurance tips here. Remember to see what your policy covers and then read the exclusions, definitions and limitations. Almost all policies are similar such as the HO3 but then each state laws may change your coverage.

I have an HO3 and take my chances with the normal perils listed. To each his own. Good luck.

A few years back my house was burglaries . I have a large collection of trains displayed on my walls. What was taken was my electronics, cameras, computers, flat screen TV, cash and some jewelry. None of my trains were touched.

Now I do have 100% replacement coverage but I was only paid 80% of what I paid for each item and that was with receipts.  After I replaced the items that were taken with new items only then did the insurance pay me the difference and only after I submit a receipt.

Cash is not covered and I had a limit on the jewelry because I did not have a rider.

My trains are not covered by my Home Owners. I asked my insurance broker if he had any idea why my trains were not taken? He told me that big lots of trains  take time to load and are almost impossible to sell because most people don't know what to do with them.  

Be careful if you think that your home owners will cover your trains, they don't, unless you have a rider and that is expensive. He also told me If I say had a 700E mint and it was taken and even if was insured, I would only get 80% of its value. Then proving what it is worth is not an easy thing to do. Photos do not help, they only show that you got some pictures and really you can get them anyplace today.

If you have a receipt for what you paid would help.

He also said that the best thing is to have a knowing qualify second source, either a person or group to list each item and put a value to that item. It would need to be updated, when buying and or selling, also keep receipts.

 All this was starting to make my head spin! So this is what I did. After all this happened I had ADT come and install and monitor an alarm system, then I added a few hidden cameras around the house. I felt that this was the best way for me to go. Now I only was dealing with my Home Owners insurance, and only with theft I am not sure how other insurance companies  work when it comes to trains, cash and jewelry. I did not come out to good on this. I never recovered what was lost as far as cash, jewelry and most of all my family's security.

That is really very reasonable for 99% of cases.

On what are you relying to make that statement - I really need to know!

I just added up the prices I paid of all of my trains and layout this week, and discovered my collection is way under the amount needed for no itemized list.   It says I need an itemized list, but the forms baffle me in that I am supposed to list TCA ratings on each item etc.  I am not a collector.  I just have a few trains to run, but would like to insure them, because if I lost them to fire, I would not be able to afford to have a layout or trains any time soon.  I guess I will have to figure out the form.

Rob, for me it was experience, after being burglaries and going through what we went through we asked all the questions we could think of. Like why if I am paying for 100% cost replacement I only got 80%. Now we know why. The same with trains, not covered with my home owners unless I have a rider.

Rich

I get the 100% / 80%, but, who or what told you that about no coverage for the trains? What is so special about them that they aren't covered in any capacity?

Our home was burglarized in 2008. We lost many $$ in jewelry, silver coins, electronic items and a few of my Lionel engines. The homeowners policy, which pays at current pricing. There was a limit on the jewelry and coins, trains and all other items were reimbursed at the selling prices at the time. The only thing we had to pay was the deductible. Have the same Ins. Co. today. Only need riders on jewelry and coins. We keep invoices and receipts on ALL major purchases and it's easy to provide current selling prices as required.  

My policy has a limit on "collectibles".  The difference, as it was explained to me, is that an item becomes a collectible when an equivalent item can't readily be purchased new.  "Purchased new" doesn't mean buying a 15 year old item NIB at a train show.  In other words, if you can call a dealer and buy the same (or similar) item, then your homeowners probably covers it (subject to deductible, yada yada yada).  If your original 700E is stolen, then it's subject to the policy's limit on collectibles.  As the excellent post by the former insurance agent mentioned, coverage varies widely.  It's important to read your policy, but it will probably make your head spin.

Don't assume that you're covered.  Bottom line is that it's a function of your tolerance for risk and ability to replace your stuff out of pocket, vs. the cost of additional coverage.  Personally, I'm most comfortable paying the extra money to JA Bash.  Keeping good documentation of your belongings (not just trains) and maintaining appropriate policy limits is important.

The idea behind "replacement cost" coverage on a homeowners personal property form is to pay a claim on a replacement cost basis IF the items are replaced. Usually the company will pay actual cash value and reimburse the difference as items are replaced. That is likely where the 80% number came from. It's easy to figure and pay 80% of replacement cost, call that actual cash value, and get the final number after things are replaced, you have receipts, etc.

Yeah, it is confusing and a pain but it works fairly well.

If you don't replace items, then you get what it was worth... don't make a profit.

Property floaters are different things altogether and actually came from what is called "inland marine" coverage which often involved transportation exposures and more specialized needs. That form evolved with generally broader coverage and fewer restrictions and continues that way today.