A reasonably priced way to run OGauge on DCC is the new BlueRailTrains/TamValleyDepot product. This will give you all the features inherent in the DCC system and can be track or battery powered.
Battery powered control systems and power systems are the way to go with our scale.
Battery technology has been proven reliable and safe with the appropriate circuitry onboard the battery pack. The technology is available to everyone at a reasonable cost.
The battery and control system can be contained within the locomotive, and I have even managed to fit it all in an MTH S2.
With battery and Kadee couplers switching is a breeze. I will install Kadees on a car with hirail wheelsets - although I’m shifting more toward scale wheelsets.
That is the fun of model railroading. There are so many choices and our scale makes it easy to accomplish that.
Below is my Lionel Camelback all battery powered with a suethe smoke unit. Lots of fun! Layout is now at the club where I can fill that place up with smoke. 😎
Have fun everyone! That’s what it’s about!
Larry
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The newest BlueRailDCC boards run on AC track out-of-the-box. Connect them to your favorite DCC decoder and off you go.
Does anyone know what Lionel means by "DCC enabled"?
I have some lionel s gauge engines that are dcc enabled and they will run dcc right out of the box
Good to know and thanks for that input. What DCC decoder system does Lionel use?
not sure but there default setting is in the manual something like 72 but they program to engine just like any other decoder the s gauge es44 runs make that 73 thanks Tom
I’m definitely a newbie to DCC but I’m using it with my small HO layout and have just recently got a 2 rail British O gauge locomotive from Dapol which I’ve installed a DCC chip and sound.
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Lionel's Manufacturer ID for DCC is 73, The Electric Railroad Co.
I am preparing my fleet for the future layout.
All my old TMCC Diesels are being converted to DCC ESU LokSounds.
@Doug-Sr posted:I have some lionel s gauge engines that are dcc enabled and they will run dcc right out of the box
Is there a switch like on MTH trains to select Legacy or DCC? If not, which does the locomotive listen to if both are on the track at the same time?
no switch it senses the dcc signal when present i dont the second part as i use a double pole double switch to switch the track from ac/tmcc to dcc i have never tried to use tmcc or legacy on same track as dcc at same time
Doug: The Lionel S Scale user manual states that the DCC signal has priority over the TMCC/Legacy signal if both are present. Your switching of the two signal systems is the much better approach.
What DCC command system are you using and are you able to access and set CV's?
Bob i use the digitrax zephyr 51 for one main and digitrax 210 booster for the other track with 10 amp power pack set to 5 amps for my s gauge , the 210 i use on rare occasion for my o gauge i then set it to 8 amps and yes you can access and set cv's
I'm eagerly following this thread!
MTH is going away, and probably long-term support for their proprietary control system too. My main concerns are whether DCC and Legacy can operate on the same track at the same time, without interfering with each other. Also, whether DCC can extract the slow-speed performance out of a loco like MTH's Protosound-2 can (i.e., without the benefit of a tach sensor on the motor flywheel.) Following!
@Ted S posted:
My main concerns are whether DCC and Legacy can operate on the same track at the same time, without interfering with each other.
No, see above comments.
Also, whether DCC can extract the slow-speed performance out of a loco like MTH's Protosound-2 can (i.e., without the benefit of a tach sensor on the motor flywheel.)
Yes, BEMF can control a locomotive’s crawl without a flywheel and sensor.
@Ted S posted:My main concerns are whether DCC and Legacy can operate on the same track at the same time, without interfering with each other.
Not completely. Electrocouplers on Legacy won't work (And possible will overheat and burn out.). Also, on parallel tracks the Legacy signal can get blown out when a DCC train passes the Legacy locomotive.
Now, if you do as above and switch your track between a Legacy and DCC signal they'll run just fine. It's when both Legacy and DCC are on the track at the same time then the Legacy signal suffers.
@Ted S posted:Also, whether DCC can extract the slow-speed performance out of a loco like MTH's Protosound-2 can (i.e., without the benefit of a tach sensor on the motor flywheel.)
If you are talking about MTH PS-3 locomotives, just like I understand with DCS, I have found my locomotives don't run well until 3-4smph. Now if you do a DCC upgrade that will be different. I upgraded a Lionel conventional Dockside 0-6-0 locomotive to DCC with a LokSound L v4 decoder and without adjusting any CV's it runs super duper slow and smooth.
As has been pointed out many times, two track based signal systems (TMCC/Legacy & DCC) at the same time will most likely not work. Switching between them is one effective solution. The second is to use a wireless system for DCC which will operate independently from the connected track based TMCC system. If you are considering the addition of DCC for your OGauge layout, the wireless approach might be the simpler way to proceed with less technical difficulty.
I'm not surprised that your Atlas switcher runs well. That one was conceived as a scale model from the very beginning. It's designed like a scaled-up HO diesel, and is well-regarded in the 2-rail O scale community. On the other hand, a lot of 3-rail locos are geared absurdly tall, so the back-EMF would have to work very hard to maintain scale speeds. If someone has converted an early MTH steam loco, I would love to see a video, and to know if you're satisfied with the results.
What does it cost to convert a Lionel post war diesel or steam to dcc?
what equipment do you need to control the engine?
I am trying to see if I want to stay conventional or get TMCC on my Lionel O gauge. if Dcc is cheaper and just as good i may go that route.
I don't have TMCC or any rempte control except for a steam and a diesel Loinchief to see what the noise is about. I love the sounds but can live with transformer control of the engines.
I can't say that TMCC/Legacy can't operate while powered with DCC track power, but I will say that doing so negates one of the engineering principles intended to produce error free communication. The data packets are transmitted during zero crossing of the AC supply voltage. That is the communication occurs when track voltage is zero. With 60 Hz power this occurs 120 times per second. DCC is an entirely different frequency.
@tylertrainman posted:What does it cost to convert a Lionel post war diesel or steam to dcc?
what equipment do you need to control the engine?
I am trying to see if I want to stay conventional or get TMCC on my Lionel O gauge. if Dcc is cheaper and just as good i may go that route.
I don't have TMCC or any rempte control except for a steam and a diesel Loinchief to see what the noise is about. I love the sounds but can live with transformer control of the engines.
As for which one costs less, it really depends on the number of locomotives you are going to convert. The TMCC command base and remotes are cheaper, by almost a factor of 3, then DCC. But the basic electronics to convert the locomotive to DCC is cheaper. The only thing is that the locomotive has to have a DC can motor in it. If it's got an AC motor in it then TMCC is the only option for you for command upgrade. But it does not take much to make a DCC conversion to cost the same as a TMCC upgrade.
For the equipment, for TMCC you need a command base and remote for the layout, and then electronics in each locomotive. For DCC you'll need a remote, command base, and booster for the layout. Locomotives also need electronics. And then there is programming involved to get the locomotive to preform as you want.
@Bryan H. posted:My first attempt at a 3RS DCC conversion of Atlas SW switcher using ESU decoder. Very happy with sound and slow speed performance. Video is first test at the workbench.
Bryan, hi. Why did you choose ESU over the others?
Steve
If you are considering DCC, there are two distinct approaches which differ technically. First, there is the track signal based approach which has been discussed in a previous post. Second, there is the newer wireless based approach, either RF or bluetooth based. Wireless has some advantages. It can operate completely independent of an installed TMCC or MTH setup. Also, battery power becomes an available option with wireless. Overall cost for either approach is quite similar.
@RideTheRails posted:Bryan, hi. Why did you choose ESU over the others?
Steve
I can't speak for Bryan, but I can tell you why I went with ESU.
1) They have decoders that they market just for large scale (The LokSound L and XL decoders.).
2) They offer a keepalive either on the decoder (V5) or as a separate plug and play item (Older decoders.).
3) Completely customizable sounds, aka you can make your own sound sets for the locomotive.
4) Multiple customizable outputs, meaning you can set the output as lights or other features like smoke and remote couplers.
5) My brother and his friends use the brand for their N scale locomotives so I had a local ready resource to help with issues I may come across.
@My train book posted:I run DCC on my MTH 3 rail I use a MRC prodigy-pro-elite-10a- I can run two trains at the same time
How do you wire Dcc control station to 3rail track ?
@pvwrockford posted:How do you wire Dcc control station to 3rail track ?
Since DCC is transmitted with the power, you wire it just like you would the transformer power, one side to the center rail and the other side to the outside rails.
For Dcc block detection using Digitrax block detector BDL. Could you use the common return rail for detection as oppose to the power rail ?
@Bryan H. posted:My first attempt at a 3RS DCC conversion of Atlas SW switcher using ESU decoder. Very happy with sound and slow speed performance. Video is first test at the workbench.
Love the NKP SW!
@tylertrainman posted:What does it cost to convert a Lionel post war diesel or steam to dcc?
what equipment do you need to control the engine?
I am trying to see if I want to stay conventional or get TMCC on my Lionel O gauge. if Dcc is cheaper and just as good i may go that route.
I don't have TMCC or any rempte control except for a steam and a diesel Loinchief to see what the noise is about. I love the sounds but can live with transformer control of the engines.
Tyler,
Look at Soundtraxx Blunami, just about any modern era engine as long as it has a can motor can be operated from your cell phone. There are a number of threads here with plenty of info, whether you operate on AC or DC current. It seems there are less and less options for TMCC, I run S gauge and for us it has pretty much been eliminated. I have Legacy/TMCC and with some planning you can do much with the Blunami, plus all the sound, lighting and momentum options are included with the decoder.
Ray
As has been mentioned by a few others, Blunami is a great lower cost solution to DCC. I have TMCC, Legacy, DCS, and now DCC via Bluetooth using Blunami. The few engines I’ve converted so far, using Blunami, have exceeded my expectations in sound/lighting options, speed control (an engine on slowest speed notch takes minutes to go 12”), component size, and cost. Sure I have to convert AC to DC via a rectifier and buck converter but this is a cheap & simple mod and I don’t have to buy all the necessary and expensive hardware needed for DCC through the rails. I even have remote uncoupling anywhere I want it. Are there negatives, sure, presently 4amp max and no reliable way to sync smoke & sound for steamers.
