Is the 3R world ready for a Super O Modular Group?

modular groups usually want the ability to run larger engines, and have more complex switching.  Larger engines meaning 090 or larger curves.

second modular groups are about showing trains to the non train world. Having a track system that limits the types of engines and rolling stock would seem to be self defeating.

its the best track for a post war home layout, but thats about it  IMO.

WS,  have you seen any of Bob's videos?   He works magic with the track and can run almost anything!

Yea, I sould have been more clear...

Intent would be for Very Wide radius Super O, 0-135" and 0-144" curves so we could really run big lashups and make use of that GLOWING solid copper center rail...

Just might be fun to get the Super O Geeks together and focused on something at York.  I dont think the rest of the train world is very aware of the wide radius Super O.

My experience at trains shows is the general public could pretty much care less about what kind of track is being used on modules.

If they do, the first question is usually "Where can I get it?"  They want to be able to walk into a store and buy it.  Telling them to scour ebay, garage sales and swaps is usually not not a suitable answer.

Rusty

I echo the above, the most popular question (related to track) is "Why are there 3 rails?" 

Trains could be running on spent uranium fuel rods and few would notice or care, so long as trains are running. Additionally, modular track should be considered a disposable. No matter how careful you are, its going to get messed up while carrying it around, setting it up and taking it down. You want something you can just pull up and replace for a few bucks.

All the power to you if you want start a superO modular group, cool stuff, who cares what the public thinks if they are interested they might join. The interested are typically train nuts to begin with. Yes I have seen the you tube videos of Bobs giant curves in Super O and that is awesome stuff!

When I was doing train shows, I cared about what "the public" thinks.  Good showmanship is part of displaying and operating model trains in a public venue.  Otherwise, why the heck bother...

When I was doing the local circuit with an S modular group, the quickest way for "the public" to lose interest was having to tell them (when they asked) how few shops carried S. 

Conversely, when I was showing my tubular track O Gauge display layout, designed to be similar to a Lionel factory display layout, it was easy to keep their interest because of availability.

Rusty

Bob, I say go for it. I've always thought Super O made the best looking track for the fact that the 3rd rail disappears. Club meets like York are where your layout will be best appreciated for its workmanship. Your biggest challenge is finding enough people willing to get involved and also building a cohesive layout.

Pete

Valid points Rusty. I was in an Ntrak group 20 years ago. Typically the kids & parents were and are interested in the wow factor, scenery, best module, the longest freight etc. not many asked what track we had. I attend shows in the Boston area, there is one popular  group that are called the European train enthusiasts.

http://www.ete-ene.org/WilmingtonMar05.htm

They run HO Marklin and all digital. They have the best modules and great looking trains and scenery. They always draw a huge crowd. I have a feeling the average Joe would not have the foggiest idea of where to buy Marklin HO track, not many stores carry it. To each his own.

Comparisons to two rail layouts don't apply here. Haw many can look at Atlas HO two rail and tell it from Peco track. Now put Atlas 3 rail, Gargraves and tubular next to one another. Track can make the difference between hi rail and toy trains.

Pete

As far as the public is concerned, it's not what you use, it's what you do with it.

The "Wow" factor is largely a function of how the concept of model railroading is presented, regardless of scale or the type of track being used.

It all depends on how the track itself is presented on the layout.  Tubular O Gauge track on gray painted "ballast" on plywood will look certainly toylike, but so will Gargraves, Atlas 3 rail, MTH ScaleTrax and even the sainted Super O.

It all depends on what the builder is trying to accomplish.

Over the years, I've observed in the weekly Photo Fun threads some folks do wonders with tubular O and O27 track and the surrounding scenery.  The track is the last thing you notice and it in no way detracts from the overall presentation.

I found that when displaying at shows, what I think is the bees knees most observers greet with a yawn.  So I smile, engage in conversation with the observer if they want and keep running trains.

Now, if Super O Bob and others want to and succeed in forming a Super O modular group, it's fine with me.  I'll admit I don't really understand the obsession with Super O and the need to have it resurrected. 

Nowadays, I find there's plenty of suitable track options.

I had some Super O when I was a kid and at the time it did look realistic to my tiny, unsophisticated, 7 year old mind.  But that was then, even the few real steam locomotives I happened to see back then all managed to look surprisingly like my trusty 2036.

Rusty

2 rail 3 rail. Does it really matter? Do whatever floats your boat and makes you happy.

Sounds like a good idea!

John

Sounds like a good idea.....I just wish LIONEL WOULD BRING BACK SUPER O TRACK!!!

Rusty-Boiler:  Obviously York.  This would not be for general public.

This would be a chance for Super O hobbiests to pitch in coordinate, and set up to display and run modules at York.  Yes, some of us love this track, so it is more of a chance to meet eachother and do something together.

Bob

I don't attend York but I would build a module for a Super O module group!

You should attend.  Stow away in a trunk.  Get there while you can.

I will when my son gets older and we can make the trip together.  

Bob,

has any one come up with standards for a Super O module?

John

The question in my mind, would TCA York allow the layout? If so that's great, Bob has done unbelievable things with this track. But only train nuts would understand what he's really done with it.

I think TCA York would be very interested in this layout. Last I heard they are still looking for a layout for the Black hall. They have also hosted clubs in the White Hall.

Pete

I would be interested in participating with a Super-O Modular group.
I used to be a regular York attendee for many years, until my basement got full!
A Super-O set was what started me off into trains, Christmas of 1958.
Steve G.
near Reading, PA

Probably not.

You know that contradicts the quote at the bottom of your post.

I think York would definitely be the place for it.  If enough interest is shown, maybe we can get someone to produce the track again.  And it would be fun to try.

John

Great idea, I would jump on it.

I don't have any super-O, but have been interested and intrigued by it.  A module would be a fun way to experiment and try something cool.  Aside from the obvious module standards, we would need a ready source for track for a couple dozen module builders.  Is a sufficient quantity of track even available?

--- Ken

As someone who has participated in a number of modular layouts at shows (public and York) it is critical to have a track system you can depend on 100%. If you think vintage Super O track and switches can do that, fine.

Concerning questions from the public...the one I personally got most often was, "Where did you get the Little Rascals movie you are showing at the Drive-In?"

Yeah, go for it! It could drive up the demand for old Super-O track and I have a few pieces to sell ...

''it is critical to have a track system you can depend on 100%. If you think vintage Super O track and switches can do that, fine.''
I have been using Super-O on Holiday layouts since 2002, including using the powered switches in ''non-derailing'' mode for reverse loops.
For this year's layout, I cleaned every section of track before it was installed, and it has been running dependably every weekend in Nov. & Dec. with January still to go.
Proper care and maintenance and it should be fine.
Where to get the track: there is some on thebay most of the time, and there is also Mike Spanier. I saw a nice bunch of it for sale at the Big E show in Springfield Mass 2 years ago. Kicking myself for not buying it...
Steve G.
near Reading, PA

A few random thoughts:

I have never owned or operated "Super O" but from an historical standpoint, I say "why not" set up a display layout?  After all, many of us are in the hobby to appreciate the older stuff, and Super O was a great leap forward in the appearance of track, when it was introduced.

As far as being able to run long locomotives and railcars, you only would need to re-manufacture a total of 4 sets of "corner" modules, with whatever radii you use as standard.  The guy who can make the wide curves does that part, and the other members bring modules that do not have or need wide curves, and which connect to the 4 corners.

If you use a three-track layout like the other modular standards use, you would need at a minimum, 072, 084, and 096 curves to get three parallel tracks. The 072 would be the "shifter" or local freight track, and then the other two tracks would be the mainline routes.

To keep the tracks parallel and at a consistent center-to-center distance would require modules with deep front-to-back dimensions, though.

I think it would go over big at York.  Just my 25 yen.

I think it's a great idea and would certainly consider participating in such a venture. 

There's a ton of Super O track out there so trackage would not be a problem. 

Tin plate modular standards would work very well here. http://home.earthlink.net/~mcjackson/TTManual.htm

I have quite a bit of Super O sitting in a box and would like the opportunity to use it. Creating one or two modules that I could take to York with me each time and getting the opportunity to runs some trains on it with wide radii seems pretty cool to me! Creating one module would allow people to get involved with the track and a group without the cost commiment of creating and entire layout of Super O. Sounds like a win win situation.

If I understand correctly, it may be more difficult to find larger quantities of straight Super-O. The curved sections are probably more in abundance because of the typical ovals supplied in sets. The lack of different curve radii is also a shortcoming. There is a fair bit of work involved to modify it for custom radii. But if you can get enough track together for a module project, go for it!

I have a circle of Super-O around the Christmas tree, plus conventional O31.

I think it would be cool to see a decent size super 0 modular layout.  I still think that Lionels Super 0 track was the most realistic they have ever done.  Better than fastrack in my book!  If it had been expanded beyond the basics and a more realistic turnout developed later one it might have overtaken tubular as the normal track used for many years.  Many I know still wish Lionel would bring it back with improved turnouts and bigger curves. Fastrack to me isnt realistic at all, the rails dont have the right profile to them, super O was closer and the middle rail was much less visable.  Lionel could have atleast blackened the center rail on fastrack.  If you guys can pull off a Super 0 modular group, Go for it!!    Mike

The very first FasTrack was made both with and without a black center rail. Few wanted the black rail, so it was dropped.

Yea, with that light colored roadbed, it really stuck out.  Super O center rail is copper and shows up less then the black rail on Gargraves, MTH, and Atlas track.

So, who is going to form a group to come up with some standards?  That might be best done over at the Yahoo site.  IMO a 2 track mainline would be preferable to a 3 track.

John

Perhaps you could give us an idea of prices for old Super-O track? It's a practical consideration for a possibly major project.

Ace, average price is between $2 to $4 per section, depending on condition.  Mike has track for sale.  The only cavet is that the buss bar clips to connect the center rails are about $1 apiece for originals on the bay.  Repros are a lot less but they don't seem to hold on as well.  Mike can elaborate on this. 

I'm planning on using Super O to represent jointed rail on one line of my layout.  I'll use Ross switches but I might replace the center rail with ones from junk Super O track.  The ties are a siniliar size.

John