Is this unusual wiring setup ?

Not sure what you've got here but both the front and rear pickup rollers should be tied together.

Thanks Romiller49,  that’s what I was thinking.  I guess I could just splice the hot wires from the pickup rollers together.  I wonder why the repair guy didn’t do that.

I was hoping someone with more knowledge about the electronics would chime in.

There's motors in that? They must be really small; please show a photo of the bottom. TIA

I tried to let others answer this since my answers could be viewed as grumpy.

Point being. This is the typical sidewinder (how I call them) style motor trucks found on some K-line and Lionel engines. The DC can motors are parallel to the axles in the trucks making for a relatively small footprint.

This might be a loaded question: "Here's my question;   Should both sets of pickup rollers activate both sets of trucks ?"

#1 are both trucks motorized (meaning they have motors), because many of these are ONLY single powered trucks. You said this one is modified with 2 motors.

Regardless-BOTH MOTORS ARE POWERED FROM THE SAME REVERSE BOARD!!!

Edit- read between the lines on that answer- if you have 2 motors and one reverse unit and one motor works and the other doesn't- clearly the reverse unit is sending power to one motor- which means it's wiring or bad motor, or maybe jammed gears or binding in the non spinning truck.

#2 Yes, the pickup wires should be connected between trucks, so powering either powers the motor- sound, and lights.

Thus, this implies the wiring is possibly come loose or a failed motor.

Another thing- 2 motors on a 103 reverse board stock can cook the stock transistors. Typically, if I was the repair person who modified your loco with 2 motors, I either would have upgraded the reverse unit transistors from TIP32 and TIP31 to TIP42 and TIP41 transistors to reduce the heating and chance of thermal runaway. You can usually tell when one has gotten hot because they often put electrical tape on the tabs of the transistors- and when that tape is burned and melted- bingo- you might want to service or upgrade that electronic E unit too.

Edit- didn't complete the other option- OR, would have put a Williams reverse board or Dallee or some other equivalent higher rated reverse board for running 2 motors.

@boomer0622 posted:

A few years ago I had a second motor installed in this engine by a local Lionel repair guy.  At the time it wouldn't pull itself out of a paper bag.  It will now pull 10 - 12 cars with ease (on the flat)

You clearly have a pretty standard 103 board with no heatsinks- Yes, I can see that even in the rather poor angle of the picture you posted.

I can see the transistors-barely, and they do appear to have tape on them, and it might be showing signs of heat.

Zoomed in, the board looks a little darker around the transistors which happens with heat as well as the tape looking suspect from this picture

Vernon, Thank you for your input and you didn't sound grumpy.  This engine came out of a inexpensive Lionel set 15+ yrs ago.  So I understand it having a small board.

Both motors do work in fwd & Rev and run smoothly.    I just took it back apart to get better pictures.    It does look like some of the tape got warm.

The opposit motor runs when power is applied to these rollers, but not this one.

Both motors run when power is applied these rollers.

I haven't traced any wires yet to see where they're connected.

Thanks for chiming in Vernon....your input is always valued by me, and I have missed you commenting on the forum of late.

You have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to electronics in these things we like to call "toy trains".

I personally have never found you, or your comments, to be "grumpy".....EVER!!!

Peter.....Buco Australia.

@PRRMP54 posted:

There's motors in that? They must be really small; please show a photo of the bottom. TIA

Yes, and they are just about the most prototypically correct as can be found in a 3RO loco. The motors, one per truck, emulate a real electric and diesel-electric loco traction motor arrangement better than vertical or horizontal/driveshaft setups. K-Line did this too.

I like these locos better than a "hi-railer" should; the gearing is pretty zoomy, but if you run them conventionally with a modern transformer (that starts at 0 volts, not 6 like the old Pullmor-needs-to-wake-up Postwar kind), and wire them in series, too, they can be civilized. Not 3 SMPH, but you don't always need that.

@boomer0622 posted:

Vernon, Thank you for your input and you didn't sound grumpy.  This engine came out of a inexpensive Lionel set 15+ yrs ago.  So I understand it having a small board.

Both motors do work in fwd & Rev and run smoothly.    I just took it back apart to get better pictures.    It does look like some of the tape got warm.

The opposit motor runs when power is applied to these rollers, but not this one.

Both motors run when power is applied these rollers.

I haven't traced any wires yet to see where they're connected.

See where the wires go I suspect they tie together somewhere near the boards? If not just jump them as the rollers should be together and while you are at it throw in a TVS to to protect the board.

My opinion. Run the factory reverse unit until it dies, or not dies. If you replace it to be safe, you probably spent money needlessly.