Hi Kris,

I have the set and have one suggestion. You may want to weight the dummy engine, it's a little lighter than I prefer. Other than that, I like it. Got my set from Nassau Hobby in Freeport.

Andy

Hi Andy

Thanks for your reply on this subject. This K -Line set has the look of the LIRR car that I rode on back in the 80's. This is what I have been looking for to fill that hole in my collection.

If you are a scale operator the Greenport Scoot can be a disappointment.  The cars are the short O27 style cars, the FA is the older Lionel type mold that is way undersized.  The MP15 is close to scale but is a cheap version with very little detail.

Kris-

The Greenport Scoot Set was cataloged twice by K-Line; first as set K-1730 and later as K-1219. Set K-1730 consists of powered MP-15 #168, dummy FA-2 #617, two coaches (#2842 and #2843), one parlor coach #2015 "Montauk", an oval of tubular track, transformer, and set box. Set K-1219 consists of powered MP-15 #168 with diesel horn, dummy FA-2 #617, two coaches (#2846 and #2847), parlor coach #2000 "Amagansett", an oval of SuperSnap track, transformer, diesel horn controller, and set box. The only major difference between the two sets is the MP-15; the later K-1219's MP-15 has dark windshields, a diesel horn and a motor series/parallel switch on the underside of the chassis (an attempt to lower the locomotive's speed range). The minor differences between the sets are the type of track and transformer packaged in the box, the passenger car numbers, and the logo on the set box.

K-Line never cataloged the set pieces individually or packaged each item in separate sale boxes, but it did offer additional passenger coaches in 2-PACs. Set #K-4539A consists of coaches #2844 and #2845; set #K-4539B consists of coaches #2848 and #2849. The add-on coaches are identical to those packaged in the starter sets with the exception of the number. The only difference in the 2-PACs is the set packaging; the K-4539A set has black boxes with the old K-Line logo, whereas the K-4539B set has yellow/black boxes with the new logo. Each 2-Pac was shipped in a master carton.

From an operation/performance standpoint, the MP15 is a light puller (I doubt one can pull more than five cars), but it also is very fast, especially at midrange voltages. Being unpowered the FA-2 is best left on the rear of the train, which is prototypically correct because LIRR's FA-2s lacked motors and LIRR ran its trains in a push/pull configuration with cabs on both ends. On a side note, it is very possible to add motors and a reversing unit to the unpowered FA-2 should you wish to operate it as a powered unit; Brasseur Trains should still have the needed parts for this conversion.

Hope this helps!

-John

bluelinec4 posted:

If you are a scale operator the Greenport Scoot can be a disappointment.  The cars are the short O27 style cars, the FA is the older Lionel type mold that is way undersized.  The MP15 is close to scale but is a cheap version with very little detail.

I totally agree - I ended up keeping the MP-15 and running it as a dummy unit behind K-Line's 18" LIRR cars with one of MTH's uncatalogued GP-38s. If only MTH or Atlas would make an MP15 in the paint scheme to match the cars.

-John

Dear all

Thank you for all the information in regards to this KLINE set.  The the wealth of information is what I needed to make a decision. I remember taking this type of train out to the "Island" as a young man. This was the last pcs that was missing from my Tristate transit system. Now I  have to find a set at the right price. 

Dear John

A quick question for you the MP15 and FA-2A diesel engines. If I wanted to go with a more power engine on MP15 which K Line model would be able to fit the bill and have the Long Island shell fit it? Also on the FA-2 which K-Line or Lionel model would be able to fit the bill and have the Long Island shell fit it? Brasseur Trains are wonderful folks but I would like to get a second hand engine, fix or fine tune it and place it on the Long Island shell. I see that you are the go to person when it comes to this  K Line set and any suggestion would greatly appreciated.

Kris-

As far as I know the MP15 shell will only fit the MP15 chassis, but the FA-2 shell will fit any of K-Line's FA-2 diesels (powered or unpowered). I haven't tried the FA-2 shell on a Lionel FA chassis before, but my guess is the chassis will need to be modified to accept the shell.

On an aside, it is possible to upgrade the MP15 and FA2 to TMCC and RailSounds using ERR products. I have done this before and while the sounds were amazing, the performance improvements were nominal (mostly due to the transverse motors and lack of flywheels).

Hope this helps!

-John

Hi John

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping that K-Line made a superior MP15 that I could swap out the shell but that idea when down in flames. Mean while the FA-2 look like a great candidate for the swap out with a powered K-Line FA-2.  I am still studying the  TMCC and RailSounds using ERR products. Do you have a list of items that you install for this project. I have read about ERR on different threads but this is my first time looking at this product in detail. I just want make sure that I am look at right parts, so when I do the budget for this part of the project I do not have any surprises. 

Kris-

To add TMCC to the MP15 or FA-2 I would recommend using the Cruise Commander Lite; if you would like sounds you will also need the RailSounds Commander. Both products arrive in a kit form with all of the needed wire harnesses, speaker (RailSounds Commander only), and shrink tubing, plus the most important part - the instructions. The ERR Cruise Commander Lite is about $80 per kit, and the RailSounds Commander is about $85 per kit.

Since the Cruise Commander Lite supports all of the TMCC functions, it is possible to add electrocouplers and upgrade the lighting to LEDs on both units. Keep in mind that the coil coupler shank will likely need to be filed and/or shimmed in order to fit in the existing coupler pocket on the truck.

-John

Dear John

Thanks for the information this was a great help. Quick question if I power the FA (Contacted Brasseur Trains for a price quote) with the ERR with this allow lashing up via the MTH or Legacy system?

The K-Line attempt was geared for the toy people which the majority of us were at that time. Ben described the set well. It was good enough for its time before the all the advancements in O.

MP-15 is incorrect by showing “ LONG ISLAND" on the side - Never existed.  Large “M” is missing on the front as well.

 A real LIRR MP-15 blue and white is in the works I would guess from Charlie at Nassau Hobbies. This would allow some of us to run some 80’s  ACF modern style freight cars we have collected.

Kris-

Yes; adding the ERR Cruise Commander will enable you to lash up the units in TMCC/Legacy, or in DCS (with the TMCC link). The Cruise Commander supports all TMCC functions (front/rear headlight, front/rear coupler, motor direction/speed, cab light or smoke unit, etc) with the added bonus of speed control without the need for a tach reader/proximity sensor on the motor. Adding the RailSounds commander will give you the equivalent of Railsounds 4.0 (motor rpm, bell, horn, basic crewtalk, basic towercom, and startup/shutdown sounds).

-John

SIRT posted:

MP-15 is incorrect by showing “ LONG ISLAND" on the side - Never existed.  Large “M” is missing on the front as well.

 A real LIRR MP-15 blue and white is in the works I would guess from Charlie at Nassau Hobbies. This would allow some of us to run some 80’s  ACF modern style freight cars we have collected.

 

 

Agreed on the paint scheme, but I think K-Line used poetic licensing to make the locomotive match the passenger cars (as well as the GP38 and FA-2).

Is Nassau Working on a new project? I remember they had an MP-15 not too long ago, but it was painted in the modern scheme. With MTH not likely to obtain a new MTA license, the best they could release would be an MP-15 without the M logos.

-John

I agree it would be nice if some released a new MP-15 with or with out the logos. Doing the budget side only the retrofit cost add up very quickly. Picking up a MP-15 with dual motors with the ERR complete package cost almost as a new basic Lionel release from 2013. I am going to the York meet on April 15, 2016 and I am planning on looking around and see what is available at the meet.  If you gentlemen will be at the meet I am planning at being at the O Guage Forum table at 2:00 pm.

O scale M, LIRR and MTA decals are available through IMW. You can also print them out on the PC and glue the sheet on the cab side using 3m spray glue. Who needs decals?

On ebay all the time - http://www.ebay.com/itm/4044-O...0:g:0lIAAOSw9N1Vq~ZA Just have to remove the RAILROAD part which is incorrect.

Dear Siri

Which "3m spray glue" product?

Don't waste your money putting TMCC in the K-Line MP-15  Its a piece of junk   Besides it not being the MP15-AC that the Long Island uses.  Only the MTH MP-15 is correct for the the LIRR  Its been in Charlie Nassau's ear to do the MTH MP-15 in other LIRR schemes.  Like Steve said Island Model works makes the M decals

Dear BlueLineC4

Thank you for your advise. I did a quick search on flea bay and the only MP15-AC that comes up is Ho products. Do you have the MTH product number? I was think of using the K-LINE KCC "KENNECOTT COPPER CORPORATION" MP-15 DIESEL K-2252IC with dual motors. Would this fit over the K-Line MP for this set?

Absolutely - any K-Line MP15 chassis will work with any K-Line MP15 shell. The only difference is the newer models have operating horns and the series/parallel motor switch.

-John

Hi John

Thanks for letting me know about the MP-15 chassis and shell swap out. Here the deal. I just won at auction the K-Line K4639A Long Island 4-Car Passenger Set. Since you folk have been nice enough to let me that the original MP15 that comes with the K-Line K-1219 can not do boo in regards to pulling/push the three car set plus the FA. For less than $50.00 I was able to purchase and upgrade chassis using the K-LINE KCC "KENNECOTT COPPER CORPORATION" MP-15 DIESEL K-2252IC with dual motors. I am hoping this upgrade will be able to pull/push the new Long Island 7 passenger car set plus the FA-2 with new weights or motor assembly.

My grandfather defined "junk" as something you paid to much for, and that didn't work as it was advertised. There are threads on this forum every day about expensive, scale locomotives that either didn't work out of the box, or failed soon after. No one would like it if I said, "too bad, you just paid $600 (or much more) for a piece of junk." That would include Lionel Legacy, Atlas and MTH Premiere in the junk category of trains. Hmmmmm?

Just because a locomotive isn't precise scale or lacks the current electronic features, doesn't mean it is junk. I run trains for fun, not frustration. I can live with less features and have a zero defect rate on everything I've ever bought. Not one DOA ever in 28 years... and I can still find parts for everything too.

I have a fleet of K-Line MP's and have never once had any trouble with them. NO, they are not precision, scale detailed locomotives. But they are not priced like those models either. So take your pick. I could be tempted to say, you get what you pay for, except that we see lots of threads about high end products not working properly or not working at all. And now we're seeing threads about gutting high end locos because it's too expensive to repair, and/or original parts are no longer available. 

Kris, now for your consideration...

The Mabuchi motors used by K-Line in those engines are not a precision motor as the larger, vertical motors used in more expensive engines today. You can take 2 different K-Line engines, put them on the track and see how closely they run with each other. There is inherently some variance in the running speed of these locos.

Another tid bit for your consideration: Although Lionel and K-Line used the same identical Mabuchi motor in their similar types of locomotives, the gear off the motor is DIFFERENT, so you cannot use a Lionel part # Mabuchi motor in a K-Line loco without some additional effort.

I have found by experience, some locos do need to have a little extra weight added to them. And as a standard modification, I place a small spring between the motor truck and the bottom of the loco frame - the spring slipping over the guide pin that goes into the curved slot - which eliminates any front truck derailment when pulling a long train. And it also helping with pulling capacity.

I've had never had any trouble with the pulling capacity of any of this type of K-Line engine: MP-15, S-2 or Alco FA or the RDC which came with 2 dummy units with a lot of drag on them. And I frequently remove 2 traction tires, which helps reduce slow down going around tight 027 curves.

K-Line used the exact same power truck assembly for their dummy locomotives. They are not a free rolling as some of the MPC Lionel dummy units, so there is some drag on them. Still, the RDC (same motors as the MP-15) pulls them just fine.

I have used the Lionel MPC dummy trucks, building myself a new frame for the K-Line Alco FA shells. They end up with far less drag on them.

Also note that John made an error on the K-Line Alco FA shells... K-Line modified the shell and the frame of the Alco FA in later production when they started using metal handrails and steps on the engine. The metal frame has a long slot cut into it, and the shell has some changes which makes swapping shells not as easily done. Shells made for the modified frame, will need to have some grinding work done on them to fit on to the older K-Line Alco frame.

Be aware also, that the KCC MP-15 you have purchased has a green painted frame and handrails. The Long Island one is black, just in case you were planning on swapping parts, or repainting the shell to Long Island. And the MP-15 trucks will not have clearance for the Alco FA frame and shell.

Final note: I run my K-Line locos of this type with a Lionel 1033, on the B-U setting of 0-11 volts which is perfect for this type of loco. You can get them to run slowly, and with the max. 11 volts, they don't go flying off the track.

brianel_k-lineguy posted:

My grandfather defined "junk" as something you paid to much for, and that didn't work as it was advertised. There are threads on this forum every day about expensive, scale locomotives that either didn't work out of the box, or failed soon after. No one would like it if I said, "too bad, you just paid $600 (or much more) for a piece of junk." That would include Lionel Legacy, Atlas and MTH Premiere in the junk category of trains. Hmmmmm?

Just because a locomotive isn't precise scale or lacks the current electronic features, doesn't mean it is junk. I run trains for fun, not frustration. I can live with less features and have a zero defect rate on everything I've ever bought. Not one DOA ever in 28 years... and I can still find parts for everything too.

One mans junk is another mans treasure   I define junk as something you paid too much for too  If you look at some of my posts I call the vision line big boy junk too.  Hmmm???   

If your layout doesn't have any grades and you don't mind jack rabbit starts, and you don't mind lack of detail, and you don't mind your engine being too short for measurements of the real one , and you don't mind that the Long Island used MP-15 AC's,  and something that will look out of place with those beautiful passenger cars you bought than fine  My junk is your treasure.  This is the only correct MP15AC for the Long island but uses a later scheme than what you are looking for

If your hooked on K-Line get the Long ISland RS-3    Its a much better puller, has TMCC, and sound

Some, if not all, of the LIRR MP's could be used as road power, or flip a switch, and they could be used as "power packs", that is, used for head end power.  As a power pack, it could be used as a control cab.  So you could have 2 MP's on each side of the train.

Dear Brianel-Klineguy

Thanks for the info in regards to the  "K-Line Alco FA shells" out.  Not as easy I though it was going to be, that why I asked to make 100 percent sure.

Dear BluelineC4

Thanks for the info about he Long Island RS-3 MTH 30-20194-1. I have contacted Nassau Hobby directly to see if they have any left.

I am all for a healthy civil conversation, I am sorry if I offend you gentlemen. I find some of the old stuff fantastic like the Post War ZW's.

I contacted Brasseur Electric Trains and they do not have the power trucks for the FA. I also was at York on Friday and really did not see a donor engine at the right price.  So for right now the Fa will be Dummy engine and I will take the traction tires off. For the record I did purchase a KW for $40.00.