K Line Scale Hudson

put the err in mine happy with the operation of it but it only does two chuffs per revolution. so when its runnin like a passenger engine the two chuffs make it seem like its coasting. anyway maybe there is a way two get it to 4 chuff but i dont know. other than that minor thing for the price im happy with it ,  conrail john

Four chuffs is no problem but if you want 4 puffs you will have to swap out the puffer unit for a fan driven smoke unit. If you have the skills, PS2/or 3 will cost less than than ERR cruise with Railsounds. If you have to send it out then it depends on the installer.

BTW $400 is a typical price for a K-Line Hudson with TMCC and Railsounds.

Pete

If I was going  to purchase one I would gut all the electronics and throw them right in the trash... it will save you from a surprise smoke out later on.

When you replace the electronics, I would go with something you are comfortable working with and what control system you currently use.

The  scale K line Hudson has the most votes for looking the most accurate model for the price. So it should look and operate great when you get it done. Good luck.

J, why would you gut the electronics? The TMCC version uses all Lionel modular boards. Most all do not have K-Line Cruise just a DCDR. The cruise versions are rare. Just put in a Cruise M and you have fine running engine. Smoke unit if you want more features.

Pete

ES44AC - this may not matter to you, and you may indeed already know it, but the "white stipe" versions of NYC Hudsons (NYC steam in general) were rare and short-lived. To my knowledge, modern (1930 up) steam standard NYC practice was no striping. Yes, some were, especially in builder's photos, and some would get it at some shops (not really corporate...), and you can find some photos...but if you want a "typical" NYC look, per their standards, the photo above of #5200 (the very first North American 4-6-4 standard-gauge loco) is not it. On the other hand, it can also be totally correct, early on especially, as the photo shows.

The K-line J1 is a great model; have one with (factory) TMCC/K-line cruise/RS.

========

Above, per someone's Hudson ERR conversion: "anyway maybe there is a way two get it to 4 chuff..." Sure - if you used the typical ERR magnetic reed switch trigger on a tender truck wheel with magnet (approx 2 chuffs), just put a second magnet on the same wheel 180 deg. from the first. I just finished doing that very thing on an ERR job (not a Hudson). It's about 4 chuffs per 1+ revolutions, which is close enough for me.

This ratio depends on the relative sizes of the tender wheels and drivers, of course.

You can find them for less than that if you look an wait. I bought one for $200 in excellent condition then sent it out to be converted to 2 Rail

Michael,   I recently purchased a K Line Hudson from another Forum member.  It was the non TMCC version, in excellent condition.  This the most detailed Hudson I have seen, and I have 3rd Rail engines, along with others.  I put the ERR DC Commander in mine, an easy thing to do.  I do have an ERR Cruise Commander kit, but decided not to use it, save for another conversion.  I replaced the K Line cruise in my scale St Fe Berk with the ERR Cruise Commander, and it works so much better.  However, the scale Hudson, on my layout, does not require the cruise and it pulls the 12 car CZ consist with not problem.  Yes, cruise is great, but I do not require in all my conversions.  And, it saves you $60 in the expense, 90% of the cost for upgrade of the RS.  IMHO.......

Jesse   TCA

I got two of them, one supposedly new but it came weathered from Trainz...but I like it. And one new new from another vendor. A few years ago. I put the Cruise M in both and they run very well.

Great engine and they run well. A few years ago I upgraded mine to PS-2 including a PS-2 smoke unit. One of my favorite running engines. if anyone wants to do this conversion email me offline and I can provide details for a tach tape that will synchronize the 4 chuffs/puffs per rev perfectly.

Rod

I have the TMCC version it runs great

If you want four chuffs, consider my new 10200 - Programmable CHUFF-GENERATOR at Henning's Trains.  No magnets and reed switches hanging on the wheels.

Norton posted:

J, why would you gut the electronics? The TMCC version uses all Lionel modular boards. Most all do not have K-Line Cruise just a DCDR. The cruise versions are rare. Just put in a Cruise M and you have fine running engine. Smoke unit if you want more features.

Pete

Pete- Lets just say I have the golden touch - especially with the later release of K line electronics, and especially with the ones with K line cruise control... I don't even need to turn the throttle on and PFFFT... smoked the board!

I have a Pennsy K4 with the smoke deflectors, just beautiful engine... K line TMCC and K line cruise... unfortunately its sitting in the box with 0 speed steps...

Have a few colleagues with K line 2 truck shays and the Hudson... same - same. 

My goal is to keep the sound boards in the tender and replace the boards in the locomotive if they are compatible...a project I may just send out to a super repair person.

The sound boards in the tender are RailSounds 4, and they'll work fine with the ERR stuff.  I took a K-Line Allegheny that had the engine electronics stripped and added the ERR Cruise Commander and fan driven smoke, it uses the stock K-Line tender sound setup.

Question. Am I correct or incorrect in saying the K-Line Hudson was not a true 'scale' model? Many years ago someone told me these highly detailed Hudsons weren't quite 'scale' which has me curious. I do know several years ago many of these K-Line Hudsons were converted to 2-rail operation because they were correctly detailed and as a bonus they're an absolute bargain these days!

nyccollector1 posted:

Question. Am I correct or incorrect in saying the K-Line Hudson was not a true 'scale' model? Many years ago someone told me these highly detailed Hudsons weren't quite 'scale' which has me curious. I do know several years ago many of these K-Line Hudsons were converted to 2-rail operation because they were correctly detailed and as a bonus they're an absolute bargain these days!

There was talk years ago that they were not scale but that was proven false after comparing with other Hudsons including Lionel's Vision Hudson and 3rd Rails J1s. All measure within a 1/16" of each other in most dimensions. Differences in height usually attributed to how they are mounted on the frame. The main criticism of the K-Line Hudson is the boiler is vertical below the running boards vs cylindrical. 

Pete

J Daddy posted:

 

The  scale K line Hudson has the most votes for looking the most accurate model for the price. 

It's a nice unit, but there was an accuracy issue that always bugged me - a lettering error on the tender. There's an extra space between the words "York" and "Central" that shouldn't be there. 

Love mine. Added some more detail to it, correct engine truck details and  trailing truck and booster detail and correct size 2 rail wheels on the trucks. I have retired it

.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The sound boards in the tender are RailSounds 4, and they'll work fine with the ERR stuff.  I took a K-Line Allegheny that had the engine electronics stripped and added the ERR Cruise Commander and fan driven smoke, it uses the stock K-Line tender sound setup.

John upgrade one of mine with ERR, SuperCuffer including the various lighting effects and smoke output options, MTH smoke unit, but left the sounds untouched. Let's just say what John did with it was fantastic. I considered changing the sounds but RS4 isn't so bad and once I created a baffle for the speaker the sound quality improved. If I do anything further it would be swapping out the speaker for a Baby Fatboy  (would install two speakers but there's no room without also installing a ERR sound board which is a smaller profile) or another higher quality speaker.

Just my $.02.

Mike

I found mine on the bay with a JDS PS2 conversion including the MTH smoke unit. It runs very well and smoothly down to 3 mph like the ad says. Altogether a great looking model that has been out well over 10+ years now.

Here are the K Line and MTH versions.  The Williams scale Hudson is the strongest puller due to four traction tires rather than just two for MTH and K Line.  The detailing is about equal between MTH and K Line and superior to the detail of the Williams Hudson.

I was the guy who started the rumor that it was undersize.  I two-railed one,  giving it a full round belly with proper details, and put the motor in the firebox.  Then I parked it next to my 763, and it looked seriously undersize.  My eyeballs must have been off that day.

Same with that gorgeous K-Line Berk - I finished 2-railing it, making the belly round, moving the motor to the firebox, etc., and put it on the track next to some arbitrary steamer - maybe an SP Mike - and it looked  like S-scale.  Some day it will hit eBay.  It is beautiful, if parked alone.

bob2 posted:

I was the guy who started the rumor that it was undersize.  I two-railed one,  giving it a full round belly with proper details, and put the motor in the firebox.  Then I parked it next to my 763, and it looked seriously undersize.  My eyeballs must have been off that day.

What?The long time, accomplished scratch builder didn't measure???????

Same with that gorgeous K-Line Berk - I finished 2-railing it, making the belly round, moving the motor to the firebox, etc., and put it on the track next to some arbitrary steamer - maybe an SP Mike - and it looked  like S-scale.  Some day it will hit eBay.  It is beautiful, if parked alone.

The Portland Rose posted:

Here are the K Line and MTH versions.  The Williams scale Hudson is the strongest puller due to four traction tires rather than just two for MTH and K Line.  The detailing is about equal between MTH and K Line and superior to the detail of the Williams Hudson.

 

 

 

I watched three and a half minutes and turned it off. Trains going so fast you couldn't read the loco numbers to tell which one was which much less see any detail.

John and GGG....  I have the 5344 non-TMCC Hudson that I upgraded to ERR DC Commander.  My question is, I have an MTH fan smoke unit from a PS1 PA unit to replace the mechanical one it came with.  What is the voltage from the number seven quick connect on the DC Commander?  May this be used to power/drive the MTH smoke unit, and is it approx. 5 volts?  I will be installing a 6 pin, or can do a 10 pin, tether for TMCC control over the smoke, engine lights, etc. as supplied with the ERR board.  So, can I use the number 7 connection, or if not, what else may I be needing?  Also, thinking of an installation allowing for a Chuff Generator at a later time.  Thought maybe I could get a quicker answer than waiting to email Ken in the morning.

Thanks.....

Jesse     TCA  12-68275

You can NOT use that directly without some mods to the smoke unit.  The 8 ohms of the two resistors will take out the R4LC smoke triac in short order, too much current!  Of course, before that happens, you will have IMPRESSIVE smoke.

I have simply cut away the connection to one resistor and run the MTH smoke unit from the TMCC output.  Still gets impressive smoke, but it'll last a bunch longer.

Hey John, I would like it if you can converse with me this Saturday about your product.  A cold beer could be in your future.  Alex will have another great open house.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

You can NOT use that directly without some mods to the smoke unit.  The 8 ohms of the two resistors will take out the R4LC smoke triac in short order, too much current!  Of course, before that happens, you will have IMPRESSIVE smoke.

I have simply cut away the connection to one resistor and run the MTH smoke unit from the TMCC output.  Still gets impressive smoke, but it'll last a bunch longer.

John, he said PS-1 smoke so it is 16 ohms at low voltage and 32 ohms at high voltage.  It should work.  G

I missed that, the PS/1 will work, you are correct.  I need to read more carefully.

Gentlemen,  Thanks for the information on this.  John, so the Chuff Generator would also work well with this?  Or best with the Super Chuffer?  Without contacting Ken, yet, could not find info on ERR #7 output rating and not knowing enough info concerning the PS1 smoke unit.

Again, thanks...

Jesse 

The Chuff-Generator and the Super-Chuffer are complementary products, they work together.  The Chuff-Generator generates a programmable number of chuffs for a driver rev and controls optional ground lights, and the Super-Chuffer manages the smoke unit fan and provides the Rule-17 lighting and cab light control features.  The triac on the R4LC is a 4A unit, but that is with a large heatsink, not nearly that much with no heatsink  I wouldn't plan on getting more than maybe an amp maximum from the smoke output.  It'll drive the PS/1 smoke unit fine, I've done that a number of times.  I normally use the PS/2 smoke unit, it's smaller and fits into my upgrades better.

John,   10-4....  I really like this detail of the scale Hudson and I am looking to the upgrade of chuff and lights as your products provide, from what I have read and understand.  And like the fact of the chuff generator to provide that, and not having the need for a cherry switch.

Again, thank you, sir...

Jesse

I got tired of gluing magnets to wheels, that's when the Chuff-Generator was born.   I though of this a few years back, and now that I've done it, I can't imagine why it took me so long to just do it!

5343 is K Line (closest to camera)

5344 is first generation MTH (farthest from camera)

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I got tired of gluing magnets to wheels, that's when the Chuff-Generator was born.   I though of this a few years back, and now that I've done it, I can't imagine why it took me so long to just do it!

What would be the best fan smoke unit to use in place of the original one for you super chuffer upgrade?

Thanks in advance,

Mike

I use the MTH PS/2 smoke units as a rule if I'm replacing the smoke unit.  You do have to do some minor mods to the smoke unit to use it with TMCC.