K Line Tank Engine Cruise Problem

Out of curiosity, what version of the K-Line cruise is in your engine?  Check the label on one of the chips.

The chuff switch is required to generate the chuff pulse to the R2LC chuff input.  For retrofits, many folks install a reed switch and one or more magnets on a driver or other truck wheel to generate the pulses. 

I currently use a new board I designed to generate the chuffs, it's attached to the motor and reads a tach strip on the flywheel.  When I can get them produced, they'll be sold through Henning's Trains.  This dispenses with the magnets and reed switches glued to wheels & trucks.  It also allows you to generate any chuff count you desire through a simple calibration procedure.

Coming soon to a store near you.

John

I've not opened the engine up yet but will today or tomorrow and report back to you.

I like your new chuff board..........have an extra to sell..  ?

If not, how soon would you expect availability?

In the meantime, is the chuff switch available at ERR?  With instructions on install?

I did not seem to be able to locate it on their site.

Thanks

Dave

The chuff switch comes with every steam RailSounds Commander kit, and I think they sell them separately as well.  You need to check the clearance and mounting of various wheels to see where the magnets will fit, and if there's a place to bond the reed switch.  Also, it's a bit tricky to get the reed switch mounted so that it'll reliably trigger each chuff.  Any axle slop will also sometimes cause a problem when you are on curves.  I spent a lot of time fooling with magnets and figuring out how to get them working properly, that's the reason I came up with an alternative.

I'm working now to get some of these made, my current board assembly house has been very busy and I haven't been able to get a production slot.

Bob

I have done the reset you mentioned and no results.

The K Line cruise in my engine is not working well  at all no matter what I do.

You mention "a bracket and a switch".  What does the switch do?

Am I correct that I would need ERR Cruise Commander M for steam?

Would this "kit" have the switch?

What is a version 4 driver board?

Appreciate the help

Thanks Dave

The "version 4" board Bob mentions is the last in the line of K-Line cruise boards.  As he said, that was the one that corrected all the oddities, or at least most of them.

I wasn't aware the Tank Engine had the cam, the bracket and switch he refers to is to mount the chuff switch to to use the cam on the axle.  Note that this will only give you 2-chuffs/rev of the drivers.

I didn't realize the Tank engine had a cam either. Mine works and I am believer if it ain't broke don't fix it but it does have 4 chuffs so if it has a cam its a four lobed variety then swapping out the motor driver would be trivial.

Pete

Here are some shots of the K Line Cruise.

Just below the motor you can make out the cam.

You cannot see it in the shot but right near it on the frame is a stud and a pre-drilled tapped hole that would look like it might be for the switch bracket?

Thanks   Dave

Pete, the cam apparently has two lobes, but the K-Line cruise module generates the chuffs if it's working, so the cam isn't used.

Live and learn. Maybe K-Line thought of producing a conventional version of this engine. Thanks for the info guys.

Pete

Would the Cruise M for steam work here?

And would the small metal stud and pre-drilled hole be there for a switch to on - off the chuff?

And if so............where would the switch wires be directed?

Thanks again

Dave

You can use the steamer CC-M here, it'll work fine.  The chuff switch bracket is shaped to hold the cherry switch in the proper position to contact the cam.

Here's a switch and bracket, obviously the bracket may not be right for the Tank Engine.

Bob Karas posted:

The k-line tank has a smoke cam already built in. All you need is mount bracket and switch. To install err cruise board is simple, all you need is board and 4 pin harness and plug for serial connection to pin 24 of r2lc. But have you done a complete factory  reset of the tank eng? This many times corrects the problem. Also you need Version 4 driver board .This one corrects all problems.

Bob, What is a "Complete Factory Reset"?  Is that in the manual that came with the engine?  Or are you just talking about R2LC Reset?

Dave, Do you have a broken blue wire that is not attached to the cruise board? 

All this begs the question on how did K-Line generate chuffs with out switch for the tank.  Was it just programming, if so changing to another K-Line Cruise board would not necessarily fix this, or was it resident on Ver 4.0 too and just needs to be accessed....some how? 

Who was K-Lines Technical Engineer and is he still available to answer questions?   G

G, The reset procedure can be found here.

This and other docs are in the TMCC forum sticky of TMCC documents.

Pete

GGG

Yes the blue wire was well soldered to the cruise board.

My understanding is that Version 4 was intended to solve this and possibly other issues.

My version is #3.

The cam is there on mine but not used.......as the chuffing ability came out of the cruise board.

I would think it was programmed in.

I followed the resets contained in Pete's link...........no luck.

Dave

The chuff was generated by the cruise board.

Has anyone tried to use a K Line Version 4 board to solve issues?

Can the version 4 board even be bought?

Thanks

Dave

Thanks for the reset information. My K-Line Tank engine seem to be in Shay mode---somewhere between 8 and 12 chuffs per revolution.

Scott Smith

Well, there is no source for the boards today. Kits come up on the auction sites every once in a while but hard to know what version they are. I bought two kits from my local hobby shop just after they announce they were closing down and they were both ver 3. Actually the engines (Hudson, Mikado) they were installed in as well as my Tank engine and Shay all have ver3 and, knock wood, no issues.

Pete

If you can find a working one on the used market, you're all set.  Lionel has one listed, but I don't know what version it is, perhaps they can tell you?

K-LINE CRUISE / MOTOR DRIVER PCB (OBSOLETE)

BTW, I have a version 3 board in my parts box...

Hmmmmmmmmm..........now I'm curious John to see if Lionel's board might be a Version 4.

AND I wonder for $90 ........will it work and for how long.......

And you have a version 3...........I'll email you off line.

Pete............with your version 3 boards ..........do you have good cruise at all speeds?

Thanks Gents for the help.

Dave

Dave, its all good with my 4 K-Line Cruise engines. Jon Z has remarked in the past that one part is prone to fail and then you will have issues. I had the boards before the Cruise Ms were available so I used them and figured if they fail I will just drop in a Cruise M. The advantage of K-Line Cruise vs the Cruise M is you don't need a chuff switch but I make my own optical chuff switches so its not a huge deal.

Pete

Norton posted:

I make my own optical chuff switches so its not a huge deal.

Exactly how do you do that?

I have the K-Line Berk with cruise, and the cruise feature and the can motor quit back in 2009.  I changed the bad board out with the ERR Cruise M that uses EMF to obtain the cruise mode.  With the new can motor, this was/is a great feature as it does not require the tape and reader.  The chuff and smoke never changed, very well pleased, and not difficult to perform.

Jesse TCA

Pete, Have you ever read the notes in detail or used them?  Contradictory information, Like 8 being a Steam code.  Again, I am interested in specific K-Line data that stated how to reset a Cruise board and whether any Cruise 4.0 has the capability to generate chuff without a cherry switch. Or was that confined to the Tank Engine.  G

Norton posted:

G, The reset procedure can be found here.

This and other docs are in the TMCC forum sticky of TMCC documents.

Pete

 

Norton posted:

Dave, its all good with my 4 K-Line Cruise engines. Jon Z has remarked in the past that one part is prone to fail and then you will have issues. I had the boards before the Cruise Ms were available so I used them and figured if they fail I will just drop in a Cruise M. The advantage of K-Line Cruise vs the Cruise M is you don't need a chuff switch but I make my own optical chuff switches so its not a huge deal.

Pete

Pete, So your K-Line NON tank Engines with Cruise have adjustable chuff control without a Cherry switch?  The Alleghany and Hudson's I have seen had Cherry switches for chuff.  So you can remove it and activate controllable chuff rate on any 4.0 Cruise board?  G

G, I indeed have read all of the notes including some not posted in the sticky. Bob Karas posted them long ago and I have done two fresh installs requiring reading the directions. I do actually read the instructions sometimes.

As for the presence of the cam, K-line produced both TMCC and conventional shays. I assume the cam and cherry switch was used on the conventional versions.

Pete

Pete, any chance you could post any notes you have on the K-Line stuff in the documentation thread?

John, I will if I can find them. That was two computers ago but I think I printed them out too.

Pete

Pete all K-Line TMCC and TMCC with Cruise had Cherry switches for Chuff except,,,,,, wait for it.... the Tank.  Your post imply you get chuffs with K-Line cruise without Cherry switch, but that may not what you mean.

I have those instructions Bob posted too.  He deleted his original post so I am really after where this information comes from.  I am leery to do the "Reset" since it is the same as the instructions for resetting driver size and gear ratios, SO it really isn't a reset to factory settings.  Unless 250 was the rest code.  But who can confirm that?  I don't want to rest ratio set at the factory

Otherwise too many errors in that post for me to trust it.   How to set chuff rate for the Tank sounds good and sounds like that comes from a K-line instruction, but I have not seen any other reference on resetting K-Line Cruise other than the speed steps.   G