K Line Tooling Lima Berkshire... Is it 1/48th Scale?

Yes, those models were "scale". Remember however, that those very first 2-8-4 locomotives were not as big as, say the NKP, Erie, PM, nor C&O real locomotives of the same wheel arrangement.

Yes- they are smaller than the Lionel Berks, only because Kline modeled a smaller older Berkshire prototype:

Super!  Thanks Hotwater...  Is there a different designation for this type vs the newer 1944's Berks?  I know this type the 1925 is a A1.  What do they call the 1944 type?

I looked on wiki but could not find anything that said they were a different type, just different ears of production (although they look alot different besides the size).

A1 in 1925 has 63" drivers, the 1944 has 69" so I know that.  But was wondering because they looked smaller to me just walking past them at York.  I never got much closer to them than a brief glance, and so did not really go for them because I had so many of the Lionel Berks (I think I have 3 1225's, 1 765, an Erie and probably a few others.)

Super O Bob posted:

Super!  Thanks Hotwater...  Is there a different designation for this type vs the newer 1944's Berks?  I know this type the 1925 is a A1.  What do they call the 1944 type?

That depends on the specific railroad, i.e. C&O had K-4 class, NKP had S-1, S-2, and S-3 classes, etc.

Jdaddy thanks too...

Super-O-Bob:

Yes, the K-line/Lionel Berks are 1:48; many later - real - 2-8-4's were larger, typically with larger drivers.

A steamer's wheel arrangement was just that - an arrangement of wheels suited to the job and loco design at hand. Two "Berkshire" (not called that universally) 2-8-4's could be of quite different size and specifications, and have virtually nothing in common or parts that were interchangeable (some supplier appliances, perhaps). The smallest US 208-4's belonged to the (old) Norfolk Southern - they were quite slim-boilered. They ultimately wound up on the Nacionales de Mexico. 

Simplistically, but essentially, a loco builder built what the RR requested, to the RR's specifications, or even to their in-house-produced blueprints (and some roads - not many - built their own, even in the modern era). Class designations were RR-created, not builder-created. The manufacturing of steam locomotives was indeed an "assembly line" process when multiples were ordered, but, in general, the manufacturer/customer relationship was very different from typical modern heavy manufacturing, where a basic design (loco, aircraft) is offered, but with many available options. Rather more like the automobile. Steam builders did build locos for "stock" - especially Baldwin, I think - but they tended to be smaller 2-6-0, 2-8-0, 4-6-0 types aimed at the short-line market, where specifications were not so rigid.

The "Berkshire" was sometimes called a "Big Mike", here and there; I believe that Illinois Central crewmen would sometimes call theirs "Limas". The IC did indeed buy the original Lima 2-8-4 Demonstrator; I think it became #7070? The big, A-2 P&LE(New York Central) 2-8-4's had the 63" drivers, like the early Berks - but that spec fit its job better.

Bob, for what it's worth, I have three K-line Berks and really like the detail and size. Two are Lima demos. 

What makes the Kline/Lionel A1 Berk so special is that it has no cast in detail and more add on detail then a VL engine.    With all that add on piping  its so ugly,  to me its downright beautiful. I love it.

I run mine with the MTH Michigan Central passenger cars or the MCNYC boxcars.     With Legacy it runs smooth as silk.  Picked it up when Lionel blew them out a few years ago.

Joe

I have one.  It measures up with Cyclopedia drawings, but it is dwarfed by 0-6-0s around here, and my average Mikado makes it look like a toy.

Lets remember that the Lima demonstrator was pretty much one of the first steam locomotives to fully demonstrate Lima Locomotive Works' new concept of "Super Power", which proved the concept of having a firebox & furnace system capable of producing/supplying more steam than the cylinders could use. The A-1 was essentially a 2-8-2 with a LARGE firebox, thus requiring a more substantial trail truck to carry the increased weight. The result was,,,,,,,,,,2-8-4!

Hello,

And to finish the story, the reason for the Berkshire name was that the first two customers were the Boston & Albany and Boston & Maine railroads for the freight traffic over the Berkshire hills in western Massachusetts.

I have the St Fe K-Line Berk, bought it second hand.  Did have to change the can motor, and put in ERR Cruise Commander.  As others stated, it runs great and the detailing is superb.  As for the size, it suits me fine, and it is true, not all "types" had same details and dimensions.  Overall, glad to have one in my roster.

Jesse  TCA

Super guys, thanks for the info!  I love the detail on the mich central one...

 I have 4 lettered for the Boston & Albany. The 2 K-line ones and 2 Lionel Legacys. One is the Michigan Central that had a correct road number for a B&A so it was an easy conversion. The Lionel is just a fantastic loco. . I weather my engines and usually you get up close with good lighting doing it. . Just an incredible amount of detail on these engines. The weathering real brings them out.

Good Post Bob!

Dave you did an exceptional weathering job on that Berk.

As like you guys, I love all of the plumbers nightmare, as I did on all of the Big C&O K2/K3 Mikado's I saw in Louisville during the very late 40's/50's.

I saw at lot of IC Steam in Louisville's Oak Street Yard, but never one of those Berkshire Engines, and they had 2-10-2's and 4-8-2's out the yang in those days!

I just wonder how long IC kept those engines?

Hot Water, didn't that engine have a booster?.....................

Excuse the question Hot Water, as I got on WIKI, and the answer is,they came from Lima with boosters, but when the Paducah Shops redid the remake on them starting in 1939, they removed the boosters.......It's always easier to ask questions than to take the time to research answers............

Bob

For info on all of the modern era O scale models of Berks see the O Scale Locomotive Guide to Berkshire's.  You can read about the prototype locomotives, features of the numerous models, production history, product numbers and photos from other modelers.

  https://ogrforum.com/t...ive-guide-berkshires

Will either the K-Line or Lionel models run on O36 track?

Brandy posted:

 

I saw at lot of IC Steam in Louisville's Oak Street Yard, but never one of those Berkshire Engines, and they had 2-10-2's and 4-8-2's out the yang in those days!

I just wonder how long IC kept those engines?

 

One (7038) was rebuilt at Paducah to a 4-6-4 for fast freight service in 1937.  It was scrapped in 1950.

Around the same time, the other IC Berkshires were rebuilt, renumbered in the 8000's, shed their Elesco feedwater heaters  and wound up resembling the 2-10-2's and 4-8-2's more or less.

All the IC Berks were scrapped between 1948 and 1956.

Rusty