Question. Every time I think I have it figured out, something comes up that causes me to question my conclusion. The question is: Is this K-Line two-truck shay 1/4 scale? or is it an over-sized narrow gauge model running on O gauge track. If it were, then it is actually more like 1/32 scale. It has 1/4" scale engineer and fireman but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
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I believe it's been mentioned as being a scale model of a standard gauge 60 ton class B shay. The few photos I've found seem to match that pretty well.
Photo from this website. If you search under class B 60 ton to the left side of the page, there are more photos of other locomotives from that class. The K-Line one represents some of the more modern build numbers.
It is an interesting question. The location of the drive line is controlled by the bevel gears on the wheels; and the engine crank shaft location is controlled by the location of the drive line. Since O gauge is five foot gauge rather than the more common 4’ 8 1/2” gauge, there would have had to have been some enlargement of the locomotive to make it look right. Either the boiler would have to moved closer to the center line, or it would have gotten larger in diameter. An interesting question.
As mentioned, it is a scale model of a 60-ton standard gauge Shay, but not 1:48. As near as I can tell it's closer to 1:43 or even less (making it too large). To fit in the electronics we 3-railers hold so dear, I assume.
There are the same size as a MTH shay .
Guy
@Wigville RR posted:There are the same size as a MTH shay .
Guy
Precisely - the MTH is a model of a 150 tonner.
@Rjm posted:Question. Every time I think I have it figured out, something comes up that causes me to question my conclusion. The question is: Is this K-Line two-truck shay 1/4 scale? or is it an over-sized narrow gauge model running on O gauge track. If it were, then it is actually more like 1/32 scale. It has 1/4" scale engineer and fireman but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
This subject has been brought up here many times before. Suffice it to say that these Shay models are nowhere near 1/4X scale anything. Your guess at 1/32 may be closest to the truth.
I researched Shays many years ago when I purchased my K-Line model because it looked too large to me. I found pictures and dimensions of similar-looking machines that did not match my model's scaled up by a factor of 48. I concluded that the model is larger than 1:48 scale although I did not determine the exact ratio.
MELGAR
I apparently never looked terribly closely at these locomotives in relation to other O scale equipment prior to reading the later comments in this thread. They look ok at the head of the log trains I've seen them pulling in most videos, but when compared with other scale locomotives they tower over them. They look nice, but yes they're definitely oversized.
It's funny but even though I am a 3-rail collector/operator, anymore, I expect scale proportions among the models. I f set an MTH Big Boy next to a Lionel Big Boy, they'd better be the same (and of course they aren't). A scale brass parts maker I once knew told me the MTH Big Boy was a "pencil on wheels" and that the Lionel model from 2007 was actually measured correctly. The MTH model is about a 1/2 inch longer than the Lionel model and when you see them side by side, then you can see it. The MTH model front extends way too far out there. We 3-railers are now in the same class as 2-rail scale modelers when it comes to accuracy. I think we need to get back to making the difference between 'O' gauge and 'O' scale. I see those descriptions getting blurred more and more on ebay and other sites. A lionel 2056 postwar steam loco is NOT 'O' scale, but it is 'O' gauge. Just about every one on here knows this, especially we old timers but maybe there are some newer people coming into the hobby for which this info might be very helpful. In conclusion, when my K-Line shay cab is larger than my Big Boy cab ---- Houston - We have a problem. LOL
I sold mine because of the size. I compared it to a scale brass version. Don
Yeah Don, I'm thinking of doing the same. I have two. I want my O scale models to be the correct proportion to each other, whether built by MTH, Lionel, K-Line, Atlas, Weaver or 3rd Rail. K-Line didn't have to oversize that model, they could have scaled it down to the right scale size to where it needed to be and still have the smoke unit and all electronics as desired by the market. - Ralph
The only way K-Line could have scaled theirs down would have been to design their own electronics, smoke units, and use smaller motors. This what Lionel had to offer some 16 years ago. Today that might be possible and Lionel could build a smaller engine but that would mean all new dies and that isn't going to happen.
I would be curious of Lionel's model of the Western Maryland 3 truck shay might be closer to scale, given the prototype is one of the largest shays ever built.
Your other option is to build an On3 or On30 line to service your 3 rail mainline.
Pete
@Norton posted:I would be curious of Lionel's model of the Western Maryland 3 truck shay might be closer to scale, given the prototype is one of the largest shays ever built.
I just took some rough measurements of my Legacy WM shay and it seems to fit most of the prototype dimensions I found online fairly closely.
I don't have this model, maybe I should look into it, thanks for your interest in this.
Ralph
Yeah Pete, I have an On30 Bachmann shay and it is much smaller than the K-Line, no comparison of course. K-Line's other locomotives which are quarter scale are true I believe to the measurement, excluding of course the Big Boy and Allegheny which are Railking or such in size. Okay 3rd Rail, here's your opening while Lionel and MTH are sleeping, build a true to scale O scale two truck and three truck shay, I'll bet they'd be beautiful!!
Go online and see our 2-truck Shay from Goodman Lumber Co. on display at ( the) www.MidContinent.org this engine was purchased for the Goodman Lumber Co. and stayed there until it was retired. I have the K-Line version since it is close to the one at our Museum.
I took some time and noted the major dimensions I found on my Lionel 2017 version of Western Maryland Shay 6 compared to the dimensions in the website in my previous response. Bear in mind, the most accurate measuring tool I have access to at the moment is a Stanley tape measure, so these are pretty rough measurements. Everything seems to measure up to being within a few inches of the prototype aside from the wheel base for reasons noted below.
Height From Top of Rail (Prototype 16’-0”)
Model: 4” (16’ scale) to the top of the steam dome
Total Length/Wheel Base (Prototype 49’-0”)
Model: 12-1/2” (50’ scale)
Note: I believe this is due to an extended drawbar Lionel utilized on this Legacy version
Width (Prototype 11’-4”)
Model: 2-3/4” (11’ scale)
Wheel Diameter (Prototype 48”)
Model: 1” (48” scale)
Truck Wheelbase (Prototype 68”)
Model: 1-7/16” (69” scale)
Boiler Diameter at smokebox front (Prototype 62-3/8”)
Model: 1-3/8” (66” Scale)
@Jeff B. Haertlein posted:Go online and see our 2-truck Shay from Goodman Lumber Co. on display at ( the) https://www.midcontinent.org/ this engine was purchased for the Goodman Lumber Co. and stayed there until it was retired. I have the K-Line version since it is close to the one at our Museum.
Maybe in looks, but not in scale dimensions.
The link does not got to the Railway Museum site. It throws in a dash between mid and continent and goes to a tourism site.
Rusty
The K-Line is a model of the largest of the several standard class 2-truck Shays. Has anyone actually compared dimensions or do they just think it looks too large?
@Rusty Traque posted:Maybe in looks, but not in scale dimensions.
The link does not got to the Railway Museum site. It throws in a dash between mid and continent and goes to a tourism site.
Rusty
Not sure what the problem is. The Mid-Continent Ry. Museum is loacted in North Freedom, WI. and is considered a tourist railroad MUSEUM! As for the site, it is as printed above.
@CAPPilot posted:The K-Line is a model of the largest of the several standard class 2-truck Shays. Has anyone actually compared dimensions or do they just think it looks too large?
According to a 1920's Lima Shay catalog, a stock 60 ton two truck shay would be about 14'-1" tall, 10'-0" wide and have a total wheelbase of 33'-1" (presumably to the centers of the outer axles?). The drive wheels would have been 36" diameter. Unfortunately it doesn't list an overall length for the locomotive.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/c...p;view=2up&seq=1
The link below lists a similar locomotive as having a boiler diameter as 46.375" which based on the dimensions that matched up to my 3 truck shay model, that would match the diameter of the smokebox.
https://www.shaylocomotives.co...actsheet/sn-3150.htm
Your second link is correct, but the top one (and quote copy) ARE NOT correct and lead to an unsecured site by nearly the same name. The domain names do differ, the museum domain does not use the hyphen (-). The "travel site" does.
You should edit the early posting imo; it's "spam" as iz.
@Jeff B. Haertlein posted:Not sure what the problem is. The Mid-Continent Ry. Museum is loacted in North Freedom, WI. and is considered a tourist railroad MUSEUM! As for the site, it is as printed above.
Probably not the place to say it, as I run mostly Postwar and other models at that level of detail, but as I don't have any curves wider than 042 I'm more interested in how tight it will turn (K-Line's will take an 031 curve IIRC), and, above all, the PRICE.
Sorry to interrupt.
@artyoung posted:Probably not the place to say it, as I run mostly Postwar and other models at that level of detail, but as I don't have any curves wider than 042 I'm more interested in how tight it will turn (K-Line's will take an 031 curve IIRC), and, above all, the PRICE.
Sorry to interrupt.
Since this isn't the 2R scale forum you are not interrupting. I have the Lionel Legacy Shay which my understanding is the same as the K-Line, and I love it. Sure it looks huge next to my scale Lionel Big Boy, but I don't care. I'd rather have a too big Shay then no Shay at all! My only complaint is the sound is wrong, but then again, I'd rather have wrong sound then no Shay at all.
@artyoung posted:Probably not the place to say it, as I run mostly Postwar and other models at that level of detail, but as I don't have any curves wider than 042 I'm more interested in how tight it will turn (K-Line's will take an 031 curve IIRC), and, above all, the PRICE.
Sorry to interrupt.
One of the disappointing things about the K-Line shay is it requires much wider curves than many smaller steam engines. 042 is marginal. O54 to be safe. The issue has mostly to do with the limited coupler swing but also how far the drive coupling can move before separating. I think the Lionel version has improved coupler swing so 042 may be OK but I doubt much smaller. Ironic as the prototypes were meant to navigate much tighter curves.
Pete
As I understand it, K-Line created an add on coupler bracket (may have been included in the box during at least some production runs?) that extended the couplers out from their factory position and enabled them to run on O-31 curves. Lionel did not include that bracket with theirs which I believe limits the minimum curve to something larger.
@SantaFe158 posted:As I understand it, K-Line created an add on coupler bracket (may have been included in the box during at least some production runs?) that extended the couplers out from their factory position and enabled them to run on O-31 curves. Lionel did not include that bracket with theirs which I believe limits the minimum curve to something larger.
This is true. I own a K line two truck Shay and the alternate couplers will allow it run and pull cars around 0-31 curves.
Just park it next to a scale PS-1 boxcar. Then do the same with a large steam locomotive without tender. Which one makes that huge boxcar look like S gauge?
Other than that, it was a mechanical marvel and very well done. I got to review the 2-rail version, and was impressed!
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