keeping engines on powered track

Hi steve 

I definitely would install toggles on all sidings no matter what ,it's nice too have controlled sidings so Trains can sit completely silent 

Alex 

I've wondered about this... aside from the noise of idled engines, I wonder whether there is a wear factor...   Does powering up the sound impose wear on the components? The risk of running steam smoke units dry is pretty clear. Are  there other issues?

Jan

Toggle those siding tracks. You will not be sorry.

Steve,

When a DCS engine and its cars are on powered track, even with the engine not yet started up, the following is true:

• The engine's electronics are getting power and will age accordingly.
• The engine's chronometer will increase at the same rate at which it does when started up.
• The engine will draw some small amount of power that could be used for other purposes.

This and a whole lot more about DCS is all in MTH’s “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

This and a whole lot more about DCS WiFi is all in MTH’s “The DCS WiFi Companion 1st Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store! Get the free TMCC & Legacy Addendum here!

One more vote for the siding toggles. I added switches to all of mine from what I learned reading about this here on the forum. Anywhere an engine can sit I added an on-off switch to the center rail power.

THANKS ALL !

Luckily I only place engines on my layout that I am running will consider installing a toggle on each siding and power off those not in servoce and now be able to keep some more engines on the layout

Greatly appreciated

Steve

This is one great post.  I hear constantly from people who want to keep everything powered.  Listen to all that have spoken,.  They are all correct.

I had a DCS locomotive siting on a powered siding and for whatever reason, it powered up and started rolling.  That would have been fine except that it ran straight into a passing train.  Lesson learned, I now let locomotives sit on unpowered sidings. 

Unless you have power routing switches like I do with my super O switches then you must use toggle switches to turn off each siding.

One thing I will be doing with my layout when I set up the final wiring (currently working on 3rd level)  is that each group of sidings has a separate transformer and TIU channel so that when the power is turned on to a particular group of sidings the engines will not start up in conventional mode and instead a "watch dog" signal is sent to the engines on that siding.  This saves a bit of aggravation of having to turn off multiple engines if you have more than one engine per siding.

One thing I had envisioned on my hypothetical permanent layout would be to not only have toggle switches on engine storage tracks, but each siding would be broken up into multiple blocks each about a locomotive length long, each with it's own toggle and a dwarf signal at the insulated joint, showing red when unpowered, and yellow when powered. That way I could stack up locomotives one by one, powering the siding only as far as needed to get a given locomotive in or out. Not prototypical-looking I know, but neither is cranking up all units on the siding to move one of them out  

---PCJ

winrose46 posted:

One thing I will be doing with my layout when I set up the final wiring (currently working on 3rd level)  is that each group of sidings has a separate transformer and TIU channel so that when the power is turned on to a particular group of sidings the engines will not start up in conventional mode and instead a "watch dog" signal is sent to the engines on that siding.  This saves a bit of aggravation of having to turn off multiple engines if you have more than one engine per siding.

We had quite a long discussion on generating the WD for sidings, and for our club layout, I came up with switch and relay contraption to power the TIU channel for a siding.  That way any time you powered up a siding, you also got a watchdog signal so the engines would come up dark. 

Next, Stan0004 came up with with the perpetual watch dog board for the DCS Remote Commander box.  I got boards made and sent a bunch of these out to folks that wanted to have a simple watchdog generator.

Proposed Solution to DCS Watchdog in Yard Tracks (DCS-RC WD Gerber Files Added to First Post)

Lots of ways to skin this cat.

The circuit boards are what I would be the most concerned about.  The problem would come from any temperature changes, low to high to low.  The temperature fluctuation going from a cooler, ambient room temperature up to the warmer environment of an idle engine.  So I would guess that at a minimum you would have at least one transition every time you used your train room.  From what I have read on this forum, some of the electronic boards get very hot; are poorly heat sinked; and have very little ventilation.  I would assume that Lionel, MTH, China, etc use the cheapest designs/parts possible.  My concern would be with the capacitors, the PTH on the circuit boards, and the solder joints in that order.   The boards I have seen use some aluminum capacitors which age according to duty cycle, ripple, and temperature.  There are much better caps available but they are expensive.  There are design techniques that can be used on the circuit boards to improve reliability, but again at a higher cost.  Hopefully they have learned how to solder by now and do daily purity tests on their solder pots, but I doubt it.  The zinc pest issues are evidence of that.

I keep all of my stuff powered down and only under power when being used.  It will be interesting to see how the "electronic" train items hold up as they get older.

I also have EVERY track on the whole layout, except for the main lines, "toggled". Although I do not like to keep the "clock running" on MTH DCS locomotives while sitting on a powered track, I'm much more concerned with ANY TMCC model sitting on a powered track. It only has happened once on our layout but, a TMCC model must have lost its TMCC "signal" and took off forward at full power!

This one's easy....Turn em off.

It's a good idea to lock your engines in conventional neutral to help prevent unwanted take offs. Which brings me to a conventional question. Has anybody ever wrote down the time and miles on an engine, then shut it down and run it in conventional, without a TIU just a transformer, and then look at the time and miles again to see if anything was added?

I power my layout with two PW ZW's (before you ask, I've added fast acting circuit breakers). Yesterday, I powered up my engine yard, and must have done it too slowly, causing a couple of the engines to startup, but luckily nothing moved. I think it is time for some toggle switches. 

Now for some Techno-Peasant questions - each of the yard tracks has it's own drop:

1. could someone recommend what type of switch I need - in looking online, the variety seems extensive - single pole, double pole, different amps, and my favorite on-on, on-off, or on-off-on!!!
2. could you recommend a place to purchase the switches

Thanks

Paul,

I used nothing but "Selecta Switch" toggle switches; Single Pole, Single Throw ON-OFF, 16 AMP at 125 VAC/DC or 8 AMP at 250 VAC/DC.  Screw terminals, with 1/2 diameter mounting hole. Item number SS209-8-BG. 

You will probably have to Google their company name, then contact them for a dealer near you

Dave Zucal posted:

...Which brings me to a conventional question. Has anybody ever wrote down the time and miles on an engine, then shut it down and run it in conventional, without a TIU just a transformer, and then look at the time and miles again to see if anything was added?

Time and miles increases in conventional.  Answering some questions you did not ask,

- miles increase the same whether in fwd or rev. 

- no separate counters or metering for conventional time and miles vs. DCS time and miles.

- Time and miles also increases when operating in DCC (PS3) even though, like conventional, there's no mechanism to extract the information when operating in this command mode

Thank You Stan.

Total neophyte here--what's the best way to get a toggle switch wired in to each of the five yard tracks I have.  I use MTH Realtrax.  Specifically what kind of switch and best way to get it wired in and mounted on the layout? -- all together?, or toggle switch very close to each track?  Any pictures or diagrams of how you do it would be super; also if can you indicate make/model of a good switch to do this it will be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

AbuelO_gauge posted:

Total neophyte here--what's the best way to get a toggle switch wired in to each of the five yard tracks I have.  I use MTH Realtrax.  Specifically what kind of switch and best way to get it wired in and mounted on the layout? -- all together?, or toggle switch very close to each track?  Any pictures or diagrams of how you do it would be super; also if can you indicate make/model of a good switch to do this it will be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

I have three engine storage tracks, three yard tracks, and one crossover all set up with toggles and I'm using RealTrax.  I have all of the toggles located on a control panel regardless of where the isolated track is on the layout.

Hot Water posted:

Paul,

I used nothing but "Selecta Switch" toggle switches; Single Pole, Single Throw ON-OFF, 16 AMP at 125 VAC/DC or 8 AMP at 250 VAC/DC.  Screw terminals, with 1/2 diameter mounting hole. Item number SS209-8-BG. 

You will probably have to Google their company name, then contact them for a dealer near you

Hot Water;

Thanks so much for the specs. I'll see what I can find when I get back home tomorrow.

Hello Friends,

I am am enjoying this discussion, especially the suggestions to "toggle" the engine storage tracks.  While much of this topic has been regarding command control and related electronics, I am still rooted firmly in the past and run post-war Gilbert AF on AC (the electrical current, not the man).  What new production S Gauge locos I have purchased from American Models and S Helper, along with my Lionel AF Polar Express, I run in conventional AC mode.  No DCC or even straight DC used here.

To this point, my turnouts have always been AF traditional track switches with their integral, optional "2 Train" operation.  This works fine to hold a train or a locomotive on a siding or in the yard if you don't leave the switch open to the powered rail.

My long planned "permanent" home layout will have storage tracks on the inside loop, so the use of toggle switches to apply or kill power to the selected track is very appealing.  Now to my question to this group:

Can I use any one of the commonly available rotary power switches to route power to the selected storage track rather than a group of toggle switches?

As can be surmised from my continued use of AC, the dinosaur of today's toy train power, my electrical aptitude is pretty much limited to hooking up tracks and accessories to transformers.  So I don't know whether any rotary switch will work with low voltage, whether they all come with an "all off" position other than just leaving one route unwired, whether there might be any problem with a momentary powering of each track as I click through selection, etc.

My space for a control panel will be limited, so the idea for some of the power routing to be contained in a single switch has its attraction. Any hints, tips, cautions or experiences with rotary switch selection or with such a set up will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers!

Alan

A rotory switch will work, but they are not all the same. They are normally divided into sections, quadrants most commonly, just find out for sure that you have one input and X-outputs, match amps to or over your transformers output. Voltage can be overkill (50v & 250v, no big deal)

Yes, for off you just leave a terminal blank, or ground it, or power a red light, etc..

The fast pulsing during selection is never a great idea, though usually no big deal. A single toggle to let power into the rotory would act as a power off/on and you can fill every terminal on a rotory next to it for choice on what the toggle activates.

Thank you for your prompt reply Adriatic.

That is just the kind of real world information and knowledge I was looking for.  The single toggle and the red light ideas likely would never have occurred to me.

Cheers!

Alan

I'm all for toggle off tracks, except I need a watchdog signal on each one.

Alan B posted:

That is just the kind of real world information and knowledge I was looking for.  The single toggle and the red light ideas likely would never have occurred to me.

 Are you talking about a SPST (Single Pole Single Throw) single toggle?  I used a DPST (Double Pole Single Throw) for mine.  One pole is fed from a terminal block powered from the TIU and the second pole is fed from an alternate power source to power an LED.  That way, whenever the toggle is flipped on, the LED is also powered on.  I used an alternate power source because I'm using the Variable Channels of my TIU (that way I can run conventional too) and the LED will be lit solid regardless of voltage applied to the track. 

clem k posted:

I'm all for toggle off tracks, except I need a watchdog signal on each one.

That's one thing I wish I had.  I have to make sure my tracks (that the engines are on) are all toggled on before powering up to make sure they get the watchdog.

I can give you some very good reasons to unpower your sidings.

Reason #1 You don't want a locomotive taking off and going anywhere when you are not paying attention to it. I have suffered several disasters that way.

Reason #2 You don't want to have a potential power drain from any electrical circuit.

Reason #3 MTH locos that are powered up put that time on the chronograph.

Reason #4 it's more fun to have control of your sidings and MUCH less stressful

Scrappy

I believe in toggles.----I forgot to turn off a whisker at my turntable and one of my "big boys" ran into the pit. No damage but I'm a bit more careful now.

DO THE TOGGLE SWITCHES