Keeping tires on the drive wheels

Don't run the engines?

 

I don't know that super clean wheels are the primary issue, I find it's usually the track condition and how you run them.  Heavy loads have been known to peel the tires right off, for instance.  Wide spaces in track joints will chew them up, as well as some switches.

 

Use tires one size smaller. Avoid running on track wet with liquid track cleaner. 

I agree with both of you.  But-t-t, they keep getting loose and flop around on the rods, etc.  They never seem to be chewed up or nicked.  I seldom run with a large load.  Track is clean and dry.  But, they will get loose and flop off the wheel after about 2 hours total time.

Two hours?  You clearly have something amiss!  If this happens to multiple engines, I'd be looking REALLY close at the track.  I'd be going nuts if I had to replace them every two hours!

 

If you have tight curves this plays into the tire stretching and coming off after running for long periods. Tight curves and steamers tend to have this problem on my christmas layout with O 36" curves.

I was having the same issue with my steam engines on different layouts. All my tires were old and dry, even the replacements. I recently switched to the Bull Frog Snot and havent had any issues yet. Its a process to get it on right and let it dry, but has worked great so far on multiple engines.

It may be that you are over-stretching the tyres when fitting them. The material used in traction tyres is not very elastic and does not like being over-stretched.

When fitting tyres it is best to fit then in the same manner as you would fit a bicycle or car tyre. Place the tyre partially on the wheel and gently ease the rest over the edge and into place using one or more thin levers. I use wooden tooth-picks to do this.

You haven't put tires on diesel locomotives with fixed sideframes, right?  You can't get a straight shot at the wheel for many of those, you have to work "around corners".  

 

For stuff with removable sideframes and many steamers, it's normally pretty easy, just hold it in place at one point and chase it around with a smooth awl or small screwdriver.

Actually I'm surprised the tires stay on at all. The manufactures put the tires on the same axle. Going around any curve something as to slip!  Where as you put one tire on per axle  than the steel wheel should slip. Put one on front right, and one on left rear? 

I haven't tried this yet

 

Clem

K-Line staggered the tires for many years on their diesels, I don't see that it's improved tire wear to any measurable degree.  After all, the wheels are still geared together, so there is no difference in the slip on the curve, right?

John

 

Thats true, no slippage between axles, but going around a curve one wheel on a axle will slip. Think automotive differential.

 

Clem 

I rotate and balance my tires every 5,000 miles...usually when I get the oil changed.

 

You may be missing my point.  Since the wheels are all geared together, the other axle is a logical extension of the first, so that wheel would have to slip as well for it to work like a differential.  You might think gear lash would help, but since you're driving the wheels, that's already accounted for.  They're still all in lock-step, and one of the traction tires has to slip.

 

I don't see staggering the tires to be of any help in this regard.  Apparently, neither did K-Line as they abandoned the practice on their later stuff.

 

I remember some models that has two traction tires on one side for one truck and two traction tires on the other side for the other truck.  That sounds like it would do what you suggest, but for whatever reason, it's not commonplace, so there must have been some issue with that design.

 

Real train wheels are tapered for a reason. The outside of the curve is longer than the inside. With both axles mechanically together and the same diameter they are going the same speed. In a curve something as to slip with one tire per axle it should be the steel wheel. The only reason I can see that tires are on the same axle and always the inboard axle is for non-derailing switches. If the single tires are on one side of truck than because of Dia. difference that power truck or steam engine may track crooked also causing switch problems.    

I understand why real train wheels are tapered.  I'm obviously not making my point about the axles and gearing, so I'll give up.

 

There are no dumb answers, only dumb questions...oh wait...that doesn't sound right

Yep.

There is slip between the inner and outer rails because of the circumference difference, with rubber tires on the same axle/truck, one wheel cannot slip in relation to the other, Lionel freight cars had the fast angle wheels to compensate.

Rubber tires are just plain a bad idea. The worst (if possible?) are the Lionel steamers where the rubber tire is installed on the front driver behind the cylinders!

One of the local guys says he goes through tires fast because the train museum car where they have the layout is so hot in the summer. Heat may be a factor...

John, I think Clem is saying that precisely because all the wheels on a toy train are geared together (and there is no differential gearcase like on an auto) all the wheels will, as you say, turn together.  Since on a curve there is more distance to cover on the outside rail than on the inside rail, either the inside or outside wheel on a given axle will have to slip on the track to make up the difference.  The wheel slipping on the track becomes in effect the "differential", and traction tires on both wheels on a given axle will frustrate that?

 

 

I replace the traction tires with silicone sealant.  It is a bit of a messy job, but if you want to do it I will send you instructions and a photo or two.

.....

Dennis

Please post the instructions/photos. I just changed the tires on my hi-rail ATSF Hudson and it went about 30 feet down the layout before one of the replacement tires came right off. One of the reasons I went to scale-wheeled engines -- no traction tire issues.

 

Just for the record gentleman I don't use traction tires at all !!! Everything gets changed out to steel wheels.

 

clem

I have had the same problem, but only on some diesels, others do not have that problem. The ones I've had issues with were hardly used, go figure

Here it is:

 

Replacing engine tires with Silicone.

 

The product you want for this project is Silicone Sealant, not caulk.  The brand I have been using is Loctite, but I found it hard to use because it is clear making it difficult to see what you have applied, i.e. thickness etc.  I have found a new brand called Imperial Silicone Sealant, Hi-Temp.  It is red in color and costs $4.98 at Lowe’s:  item #305603 model # KK0321.  Ask a worker to look it up and find where they keep it.  My store had it in the dept. where they sell lawn mowers (seasonal stuff) and accessories.

 

First arrange to have a transformer at your workbench, a soft cradle for your engine to be set in upside down, and some wires with alligator clips, so that you can connect your engine to the transformer and run it slowly while it is upside down.  Before you do this, if it is a command engine, turn down the sound, and turn off the smoke unit, while you have it on the track.  It is also a good idea to remove the brakes as they are close to the wheel and can get smeared with the silicone.

 

With the engine upside down in the cradle, get the wheels turning slowly, and clean the tire groove with your favorite solvent.  I use denatured alcohol, or mineral spirits and Q-Tips.  Caution: if you are working on a diesel and use a Q-Tip, keep it away from the gears near the wheels.  If you touch a Q-Tip to the gears it will pull the fibers into the gears and jamb the engine to a stop quickly.  If this happens you have to remove the engine's shell and turn the flywheel backwards by hand to get the fibers out.

 

Once the tire groove is clean, and dry, squeeze a small amount of the Silicone into the groove while the wheel is turning.  Next, use a squared off craft stick, or tongue depressor, like a putty knife action to press the silicone into the groove and remove the excess.  Then quit and let it dry overnight.  The silicone rubber begins to set up quickly so if you work with it too long you will mess it up. It doesn't have to be perfectly neat at this point.

 

Next day, use an Xacto knife to trim off any excess rubber while the wheel is turning, or start and stop it if it is easier for you.

 

Viola!  You're done.

 

Dennis Bracey

4/13/09, revised 11/27/12

 

P.S. to my post.  Kneed the tubes of silicone before you use it.  There is some separation of the ingredients, especially the Imperial brand.  The color settles all to one end, so squish the tube back and forth with your thumbs to thoroughly mix it.