Lamenting PS 1 loss of value

No more expense upgrading a dual-motored diesel than a steamer, the same PS/2 upgrade kit price for either.  The PS/2 boards run two motors just fine.

 

For an A-B-A set, if you have two units powered, that's a different story.  I don't think the common man can buy the slave boards, at least that's what I've been told.  You can, of course, upgrade both powered units with the full PS/2 upgrade kit and configure them as an MU.

So what else is new?  

Jhz563:

 

I completely understand your frustration, but as others have said, you have options to upgrade your engines. Consider yourself fortunate as others had literally thousands of dollars invested in PS1 equipment when Mike announced the PS2 system with no backwards compatibility solution at that time. Like Eliot said correctly, most of us who had PS1 equipment at that time were really peeved at how the PS2 system was rolled out. Some of us were fortunate and were able to turn our PS1 equipment before the market for them really tumbled.

 

Lee, you are also correct in as much as our model train equipment is going to be outdated by new features, it is just a matter of time before this happens to all of our current inventory. My take on the thread starter's frustration is the fact he blames depreciated value of his equipment on what I believe he perceives as a devalued PS1 system. And not to start a Forum war among brand loyalists, another leading contender in the marketplace has not caused in the past similar instant depreciation to their products by engineering (a subject dear to Lee's heart) all of their remote controlled equipment has backwards compatible, a very smart move on their part. That by no means says they are have a perfect track record for other train related issues, but they get a pass on this one.

>>>With PS/1, the simple fact is that it is obsolete or, at best, obsolescent. <<

>>>Reproductions and reissues never maintain the value of the original.<<

 

Absolutely false.

One example, the original JLC Challenger and its reissue.

Off the top of my head, I could give a thousand more..

As I said above.. Excessive repetitive production is the root cause.

Joe   

Rob,

 

Yeah I know, but why go to all that effort when re-wiring the DC motor to the engine/rail contacts and running from a DC power pack would be so easy and inexpensive?  Or even put a rectifier on my AC power pack, that should be even cheaper

 

I guess everyone's gotta look at their own situation.  I say what I say because I have very little in the way of $$$ tied up compared to some.  If all 4 of my PS2 engines died I could install ERR Cruise Commanders in them and run TMCC thru DCS, probably the cheapest way to go, but no sound.  Of course sound adds to the cost.

 

In a "perfect storm" situation, there's a number of ways a person could go to run existing trains.  Someone who has hundreds (I can't grasp that concept) of engines may have a very different view.

>>>I have said it before and I will say it again, buy these trains because you like them. They are not an investment.<<

  

In this hobby, for some there comes a point when reality sets in and that so called investment in happiness turns ugly.

Joe

 

   

 

The best and most sage advice given to me which I impart to you is............only buy what you like and forget the possibilities of the investment. Second.........try just buying conventional control trains! They won't lose the huge deprectiation like you would with  electronic control.

I suppose you might do better in the stock market if investment income is what you want.   If I were to sell some of my prize possessions, I think I could make a profit.  I paid $1200 for my Piper Cub, and I think it is worth 25 times that now.  I paid $15 each for my Lionel 700 series freight cars, and am sure they are worth more now.

 

But I bought this stuff because I wanted it, and I use it daily.  Somebody else will have to reap the profits.

 

When somebody offers me six hundred dollars for my 1965 Mustang convertible, I smile.  When I see folks selling Right-of-Way PAs for two thousand dollars, I smile.  It is a free country - you can make ridiculous offers and ask ridiculous prices.  Who knows - somebody might bite!

 

opinion.

I'm almost ready to agree with you.  My trains ran fine without sound systems.  But - try to find a NS heritage loco with lots of detail without a sound system in it!

dont know what part of R/C your in? but I'm in to racing nitro and gas boats.. with boats  thats a different storys.Saw a old wooden patern proubley 36" long..you hammer brass or use fiberglass to build a model boats  hulls..that dang thing went for 2500.00 on ebay!!..All it was hull bottom..Some hobby you win some you'll lose in your investments.On Trains it how limited your train was made and how desirable it is...I've been watching a guy on think TLC buying and collecting toys..Didn't know there was a limited gold edition transformers that worth 2000-3000..

If PS1 lost value, cheer up. I have a metric ton of Lionel MPC stuff that is really worthless. At least your PS1 stuff looks better. 

If your talking custom built proven racing boats then that's a different story.  However, must RTR boats will go down in value.

 

I have been into RC trucks for over 12 years and there is always something newer, bigger, and better and the old stuff drops in price.  But I digress, this is getting away from trains.

 

Either way, trying to treat your hobby as an investment is going to leave you dissatisfied in the end.

 

I really don't want to think about what I have into trains and will put into O as my venturing back in goes further.  I just want to enjoy myself.  The trains relax me and settle my nerves, and that, is almost priceless.

I decided to bite the bullet and had an MTH Tech convert my favorite 5 PS1 locomotives.  One other I ordered the new PS2 version and will sell the PS1 locomotive (it would have been klutzy to covert to PS2).

Lot less cash outlay than if I had purchased new ones.

>>>If PS1 lost value, cheer up. I have a metric ton of Lionel MPC stuff that is really worthless. At least your PS1 stuff looks better.<<

 

Not sure if I agree with that.. IMO, over the long haul, you'll do better.

Most P-1 motive power today upgraded to P-2 or P-3 electronics remains unchanged in appearance. 

Most MPC is unique and produced just once over 15 years.    Unlike the the seven year P-1 era, all of MPC production, rolling stock included has a different more colorful look then past or present production. 

What"s important is how it can easily be picked out of a barrel full of past and current Lionel. MPC looks different because it is different..

It is special era indeed and growing old nicely, Just not yet ripe enough for picking..

Its time will come

Joe

If you run mostly conventional then a PS-1 loco isn't any more obsolete than a GP-9 on a 1:1 short line. You turn on the ZW, throttle up gently, throttle down then hit the throttle and off goes the train, with lots of smoke and good sounds. For a conventional operator who puts in a BCR these locomotives are a bargain. The extra detail and higher price of a new 3.0 version isn't worth it.

 

If you run entirely in command you will, no doubt have a different perspective.

 

The singluar truth is that technology is the one area where advances create obsolesence fairly quickly and the prices drop accordingly. If you want the latest technology, you will pay top dollar today, it will be obsolete in a few years and worth far less. The key question is whether having the latest, coolest product (and the depreciation that will follow) is worth it to you personally. And that is up to each individual!  

hello guys and gals,Trainfun..........

 

The PS-3 even worth less due to poor quality made wireless drawbar that some of the forum members here are having trouble with their new PS-3 engines because of the drawbar connection problems. I think the best sound package of all three (PS-1,2 and 3) is the very basic "loco-sounds" on some of the early railking engines before the PS-1 came along and that one does not even need a battery to operate. The "loco-sounds" railking engines are worth it to me as i would still buy those.

 

the woman who loves the S.F. 5011

tiffany

Lionelbill, who is JDS?

Does anyone know for sure, is MTH still producing PS2 upgrade kits?

Phil

Phil, JDS performs PS2 and other engine feature upgrades and weathering.

http://www.jdslimitedproductions.com

Zipitty-do-da! Even my early prewar pieces have taken a hit. And I'm the second owner? This is fine because it's now a buyers market.

This is kind of ridiculous.  Most of us like playing with toy trains.  I buy my engines because they are COOL!!!!  And when something new comes along and we need to upgrade it either do it or don't, don't complain.  We are lucky to have evolved from the MPC crap of the 70's to the quality look of Scale equipment today.  I have a weaver G-5 that looks like it will be a real tough upgrade and I am not sure it would work.  I am selling it off......  I have a Proto-1 K-4 that I am selling off and buying the PS-3 set that is coming out.  Nothing lasts forever and compared to most consumer products we are more than lucky that we can still run them even if it is conventional.  My 3 year old IPAD 1 will not take IOS 5 so I need a new one.  And that means I need to spend $500 every 3-4 years.  Computers, cars, and tvs and other consumer electronics are the same.  My trains last on average over 10 years and all I need to do is upgrade it for $200.00.  Lament the value of my PS-1?  No grateful I had them and enjoy them.

" Lament the value of my PS-1?  No, grateful I had them and enjoyed them."

Here, here! I'm with you!

 

Greg

What I believe that people either forget, or don't realize, is that the reason why old trains (and other toys, such as original Barbie dolls and Buddy-L trucks) became "valuable" is that the vast majority of them were used, and then disposed.  So there are just a small finite number left for anyone who wants one.  Since then, you have people thinking that their "toys" that they are stashing away will become valuable too, not realizing (or accepting) the fact with so many other people doing the same that their collectables will never achieve the values that the old toys did.

 

Stuart

I'm sure that someone above said essentially this, but the low prices of PS1 equipment

creates many opportunities to obtain excellent scale models of high quality at prices

that are very appealing. I appreciate this.

 

I do prefer TMCC, et al, but given the choice of a PS1 loco that is "cheap", or a new command loco at a horrendous price - or not having the model at all - I'll jump at the PS1 model. After all, it's the MODEL that matters to me, ultimately, not the electronics. I do find the occasional won't-leave-reset example irritating. These need ERR.

 

Those scale steamers out there that now can go for RailKing or lower price levels are

going to break me.

My PS-1 locomotives are among the most dependable locomotives on my roster...charge the BCR for a few minutes and get on the move with a nice smooth, prototypically accurate start up. As long as they keep running, they'll have a place on my railroad and, if something goes wrong, into the shop they'll go for repair just like in the real world. Hey, if SMS can keep its Baldwins running and Delaware-Lackawanna sticks with its ALCos, I can do the same with PS-1 power. It's all a part of railroading, regardless of the size of your trains.

 

Bob      

I agree with the investment perspective...the investment in happiness and FUN! 

 

Holding monetary value?  Not going to happen, even...and especially...in the face of rising prices for later versions, general cost-of-living, etc., etc..

 

But, back to the PS1.0 issue.  I have about a dozen of these, steam and diesel, and they're all keepers.  I run conventional and love it.  And, after the advent and installation of BCR's, I have NEVER had a scrambled software problem.

 

That said, several months ago I picked up a near-mint B&O A-B-A F3 set, one of the first Premier F3's that MTH did in the mid-90's.  It was very much a first generation QSI sound system and had the idiosyncrosies re bell activation, and no bell/whistle in the idle mode...correct for the version, but too much of an annoyance.

 

So, I had a very capable individual from this forum install PS2.0 (one powered A unit in this set...the other A and B unpowered), and it's perfect!  All told I probably spent about the same as a current new Premier A-B-A F3 set...but I'm more than pleased to have it in my roster.  I have no idea if it will 'hold its value'...and that won't be my problem anyway.  Right now it's not for sale...period.  Too much fun!

 

Anyway, re the original thread issue....I'm sorry for your 'buyer's remorse'.  At the rate technology changes in everything nowadays, you must have a lot of frustration.

I understand this, completely.  Today I was rummaging through a storage area in the home and came across my SONY 8mm videocamera from 1989.  At the time it was, as they say, the 'cat's patootie'...all $1500 of it!!  It was even the very model of videocamera that the Shuttle astronauts used during their flights at that time.  It's basically worthless now.  Unserviceable.  Undesirable.  Obsolete to the bone.

 

Ditto computers and laptops...et al, ad infinitum.

 

So it goes.

 

Run trains, enjoy this hobby, be happy.

 

 

KD

 

 

I was a trainman/conductor on both the LHRR and the Westmoreland Heritage, when we had the PRR-painted Alco switcher.  The pic you had of #7 was what caught my eye, then I recognized your name from your email.

 

Do you ever hear from/keep in touch with anyone from those railroads?

AMEN!!!!

 

I would have never stayed in this hobby were it not for the new scale and modern equipment.

None of my things are actually "collections".  They are toys I play with.  I don't care if they are obsolete for someone elses standards.

.....

Dennis

I wouldn't be too hard on the "MPC crap."  If it wasn't for MPC, Lionel would very likely not be alive today.  The 3 rail O hobby as we know it would be virtually non-existent.

 

Ya had to be there in the 70's and 80's.

 

Rusty

I took advantage of the decline in price of PS1 engines (steam mainly) and bought quite a few. Some were upgraded (thanks Jeff at JDS) the rest have a BCR and I get to throughly enjoy them. At one point I couldn't have dreamed of owning all these. Also I now have no stress when my 3 year old pilots the z-4000.

It seems like everyone is hung up on sound these days. I dont particular care to have all that sound and chatter from multiple engines all at once. Have you ever been to someones layout that has multiple sound units all going at once? I have and its confusing. I prefer to have one and be happy with it. I was pricing the Polar express car with sounds this year but didnt want to pay 100 plus dollars for it. So I wired up a couple of old computer speakers and hid them in a couple of houses on my layout. Then I simply plugged them into my laptop and went to youtube and played whatever sounds I wanted with just a click of a mouse. The kids in the neighborhood thought it was cool and didnt know where the sounds were coming from and neither did their parents. I didnt have to pay 100 dollars just to hear Tom Hanks say, All aboard, this is the Polar Express. And I heard it while running my postwar 2037

I full concur!  There were some pretty darn nice things offered in the MPC period, and if those trains hadn't been made, chances are I would not be back in the O gauge segment of the hobby today (I was very involved in N scale at the time).  

 

I imagine my experience is similar to that of a good number of others.  My guess is this 3-rail O gauge segment of the hobby would like have pretty much faded and died by now, aside from the prewar and postwar collecting community, if the MPC period had not breathed new life into O gauge.

If you think those prices are low now check back in 10 or 15 years. There are so few people under 40 in this hobby I think there will be a real eye opening moment when so many people try to cash out that "investment" they made. How much nostalgia can a person have for a time they never experienced. How much do you think they will pay for it.

 LOL, As they say

" What we have here is a failure to communicate"

Two ends of the spectrum (collector... operator) coming together at the center to rumble..

Neither side understanding the other...

Joe

 

 

The title of this thread, "Lamenting PS1 Loss of Value," has things exactly backwards. We should be celebrating the PS1 loss of value, because it is the result of superior technology taking over. PS1 was a great advance in its time, but PS2, PS3, TMCC, and Legacy have pushed PS1 into a minor corner of the used-train market - and we are all better off for it.