Largest loco for O-27 track.

Well the Postwar and Postwar style 2055/685 and 2046/646 Hudsons will work on 027 no problem. 

I assume that you mean O27 gauge track with O27 radius curves.

O42, O54 and (very hard to find) O72 radius  curves in O27 gauge track are available, and I would recommend using these wider curve tracks.

That being said, yes, these engines will run on O27 gauge track with O27 radius curves.

Ok, thanks. I will look at the track in more detail but right now, it’s enough to know that anything in the collection (which includes a 2-8-4 and a much older, 2-4-2) will manage the curves if necessary

There's one thing you need to be cognizant of that pertains to 'switches'. Some bigger engines 'may' derail when going through switches due to their overhang/swing. The same applies when you get to the curves if you have two parallel tracks as locks and/or cars could 'sideswipe' one another; that's why you have to allow for a reasonable space when laying your tracks side by side. There are some great books for beginners out there by Lionel and others that contain this type of useful information which may be of interest to you. That's how I (and I'll bet many others on this forum) picked up a lot of basic/general knowledge when entering this wonderful hobby.

Good Luck!

Rockershovel, while some larger locomotives will negotiate 027 curves (and particularly clear the 027 switch box housing), I personally tend to stick with engines that look good doing it.

I've always had small layouts and so 027 track (with 027 curves and switches) has been a necessity. And at one time in the past, I too was looking for the largest locomotives that would clear the switches and make the curves. I had one of the early MTH Railking Dash-8 engines. And while it did make the curves, it looked out of place on my smaller layout with more traditional 027 rolling stock.

Here's a link to a useful website. You can scroll through the categories (it's a "sensitive" drop down menu) or you can type in the number of your locomotive in the search box on the upper right. The product descriptions will tell you if it is an 027 or 0 gauge steam engine.

http://postwarlionel.com/motiv...055-santa-fe-hudson/

As far as modern engines go, it'd be good to go through Lionel catalogs before the introduction of FasTrack. Engines that came in starter sets before FasTrack came with 027 track, so that'll help out. One engine not mentioned here yet, is the K-Line starter set Pacific type 4-6-2. Like with some Lionel steam engines, the body casting is slightly smaller and doesn't look out of place with smaller rolling stock.

If you really want to get ambitious, I chopped down the size of some of my 027 switches, mostly for the option of having the switches closer together for my switching yard. You can also cut down the corners of the switch box housing if you have any items that are rubbing against or hitting the switch box housing.

For me personally, I like the look of smaller steam engines on my layout. Lionel during the MPC years, came out with some new and interesting smaller plastic body steam engines. I add weight to mine so they pull better. The plastic bodies make adding details and repainting easier. Even just repainting them to take away the plastic-look of them is such an improvement.

Finally, here's a video I have always liked. Maybe you've already seen this one and the one below. You will see some larger engines (no steam though), clearing 027 switches, though there are one or two 42 inch radius switches. That older style Williams GP38 diesel is pretty big and I'm impressed that it cleared all the 027 switch box housings. There's also some larger rolling stock, like a Weaver shorter covered Borax hopper. While the length of that car is shorter, the width of it is wider than the typical Lionel car and yet it clears.

I guess it would always be good if you are unsure, to ask a question here if anyone has such and such an item, and runs it on 027 track, before you actually buy it.

And just for fun, here's another video showing postwar steamers and diesels that will run successfully on 027 track and curves.

Rockershovel posted:

so, I’ve picked through and sorted the collection of track, and the majority of it (and all the switches) are 0-27; so this is officially an 0-27 project.

My question is, what is the largest steam outline loco which will manage the curves? I’ve seen what appears to be a Big Boy on 0-27 on YouTube. I’m particularly interested in the 2-6-2, 2-8-4, 0-8-0 and 4-6-4 types? 

That Big Boy you saw on 0-27 track was probably the K-Line version which is closer to S scale. It is a nice runner if you can find one.

The Lionel 2035 is a great postwar runner , mine from Christmas of 1949 still runs great.

Brad

The first video Brianel posted above is one my youngest son did of my 0-27 layout a number of years ago.

One change I’ve made in the interim is to remove the switch housing covers to provide better clearance for engines and some scale rolling stock.  In addition to removing the covers; I also cut down wood match sticks, painted them black and glued them in such a manner to prevent the plastic “slide” on the switches from jumping out of their “track”.  I’ve attached a close up photo of a switch so you can see what I’m talking about.

This modification has worked well for me for a number of years now and enables me to run four axle diesel engines rated for 0-36 as well as some scale rolling stock.

From an esthetic perspective; there is most definitely some overhang of engines and rolling stock but; my options are to either ignore it or commit to the time and expense of a new layout with larger radius curves and switches.  So far; I’ve opted for the former.

 Curt

A postwar GP-9 diesel will negotiate 027 curves and switches without derailing. It is about the largest diesel that will do this.

Rockershovel ,

I run O27 switches and track.  When my layout expanded in January, I started buying the larger  #O22 switches.  I have mostly postwar and MPC rolling stock.  My lovely bride bought me a LC+ Mikado for Christmas.  It is a 2-8-2 with modern electronics.  It handles the tight curves and switches just fine.  That said, all future additions will be O31 for me.  With suitable effort, they will all live happily together.

Bill

My layout is all 027 with 027 curves. Stick with smaller diesels and steamers. Geeps, and end-cab switchers work perfectly. I do have a few engines rated for 031 curves which do work on 027 but some of the low body details like fuel tanks do hit the covers on 5121 turnouts. Not as drastic as Curt's solution, I shaved off the corners on the leading edge of the covers and solved the problem.

Steamers present different problems with cow catchers and cab hoods.

In my next life I'll build my dream layout with the endless resources that I will have in fantasy land.

I agree with everything that's been posted so far.

Although it uses the same body as a 2046 Hudson, I'm pretty sure a 2-8-4 Berkshire (726, 736, etc.) won't work.  The rigid wheelbase is actually longer than a 773!  You'll need at least O31 for that.

About the only articulateds, Big Boys, etc., that will work are the K-Line semi-scale ones (which are really S scale 1:64  with their wheels gauged to 1.25" for O gauge track.)

I would read Brianel K-LineGuy's post thoroughly.  It's not what will run, it's what looks good.  A 2046 will definitely run on O27, but a 2055 looks better.  O27 proportioned locos can look pretty convincing with small postwar rolling stock and Plasticville buildings.  My $.02.

I run 27" diameter O27 with K-Line low-profile O27 switches, and like Odenville Bill, my LC+ Mikado runs fine, as does my Hudson Jr.

Switch clearances aside—because you can work around them—are there any MTH, Lionel, K-Line, or Williams four-axle diesels that don't run on O27? All postwar Lionel locomotives should work except for the Northern, Berkshire, FM Train Master, and the 773 Scale Hudson. That said I've heard/read some people say that the Berks and Train Masters will run on O27, and other say no. In this thread, one person claims to have run Big Boys (Lionmaster?), 773s, and other long rolling stock on 27" diameter O27.

Regarding aesthetics, to some people it matters, to others it doesn't. Most of the freight that I now run is steam/early-diesel scale rolling stock—40' boxcars, 2-bay hoppers, ore cars, log cars, cabooses—and am not bothered by the look on the tight curves.

Matt_GNo27 posted:

I run 27" diameter O27 with K-Line low-profile O27 switches, and like Odenville Bill, my LC+ Mikado runs fine, as does my Hudson Jr.

Switch clearances aside—because you can work around them—are there any MTH, Lionel, K-Line, or Williams four-axle diesels that don't run on O27?

Matt; the only four axle diesel engines I’ve had an issue with are Railking Premier GP9’s and I’ll add the problem had nothing to do with the engines striking the switch motors.  

Premier GP’s have two air tanks behind the fuel tank and the rear truck has appendages that catch when trying to pass through an 0-27 curve or switch.  

I hadn’t expected this issue because my regular Railking GP’s handle everything with no problems.  Since I liked the two Premier engines and didn’t want to return them; I used my Dremel to shave enough off the rearmost air tank and that allowed the truck appendages sufficient clearance when passing through switches or curves.  The modification can’t be seen unless you pick the engines up and inspect the underside.

Curt

Not all post war will run on o27, I had a postware F3 (I don't remember the model ) that couldn't go through an o27 curve on my layout, it would derail, whereas my 671 turbine was fine with it (this was when I was a kid). Basically smaller steam engines and diesels will work okay, some semi scale models of bigger equipment might work as well.  Some postwar equipment that was built to run on O31 can run on O27, but it can look funny and may not always work right. Switches can be weird beasts, an engine that goes through O27 curves might have issues  with switches, either derailing or hitting the switch stand, it all depends (though I had pretty good luck with O27 switches in this regards, other than the switch stand being too tall, rarely had derailments personally). I agree with others, if you have the room, especially with curve track, you may want to go with larger diameter track, tinplate track these days is pretty cheap, and larger diameter curves will look better.  Larger diameter switches are better but are more of an expense to replace, so if you have the choice go to larger diameter curves, the O27 switches might be less of a problem. 

bigkid posted:

Not all post war will run on o27, I had a postware F3 (I don't remember the model ) that couldn't go through an o27 curve on my layout, it would derail, whereas my 671 turbine was fine with it (this was when I was a kid). 

Interesting. The Williams/WBB F3 uses, as I understand it, the postwar Lionel mold, and is listed as being suited for 27" diameter curves.

bigkid posted:

Not all post war will run on o27, I had a postware F3 (I don't remember the model ) that couldn't go through an o27 curve on my layout, it would derail, ………...

From my experience the early postwar F3's (late 1940's) with the horizontal motors will derail on O27 curves. 

The later postwar F3's, as well as MPC's and LTI's traditional sizes copies,  run fine on them. 

I have run the 675, 2245, RRR switcher and turbine on O27 with no issues.

MPC F3 ABA Amtrak and F3A Preamble Express also run well on O27.

I doubled the size of my O27 point-to-point layout.

I screwed down another piece of 35" straight track. 

My favorite loco for O27 is Lionel 2035, great puller and looks good.

Charlie

That question interested me enough to provoke a trip to the basement to test my 726 Berkshire.  I put it on straight track, coupled the tender and rolled it around the curves.  Surprisingly, it rolled very well around the curves, but with a large overhang.  I had thought maybe the tender would hit the locomotive, but no problem there as the cab roof is higher than the tender.  It looks ridiculous !!

The overhang is impressive - 2 1/4" on the outside for the cab roof and 1 9/16 on the inside for the the main crank pin screw - from the third rail.  The offset between the centers of cab and tender is about 1 1/2".

Thanks for all the information.

I’ve finished sorting the job lot of track now, and I’ve got enough O Standard 31” (is that the correct term?) to settle in that, plus some 54” curves in amongst them.

54” is a bit big for my available space, so I’ll look for some 42” (this is a size, right?).

There used to be a well-known method of producing space-saving compound curves with Triang and Hornby OO Track, using a mixture of radii so I’ll investigate that too

Marx made a 34" diameter curve in addition to the sizes listed above. These sections turn up at shows pretty regularly, and usually go for very cheap. They can be identified by 5 black ties per section. These sections will let you run quite a bit more rolling stock than 27" curves and not take up very much more room. Marx also made manual and remote switches for this track, though I am told they take a bit of rework to make them work well. They were originally made so Marx's "fat wheel" single reduction motors would go through them, so they need a bit of material added to them so modern engines don't wobble going through them.

As for engines that will run on 27" curves, traditional size GG1s (at least my LTI remake) runs on them and even clears the switch machines on MPC era switches. I have a 2046 Hudson that would hit a switch machine if the switch was right after a curved section (I think; I had to alter the trackplan a bit on a layout 20 years ago) but clears all of them on my layout now. A few people commented on how nice the 2035 is, and they are nice, but I prefer the two wheel trailing truck of the 2025. I typically pull 4 2400 series passenger cars with it on my o27 loop (any more and the train overpowers my fairly small layout.) I am not much into modern era trains, but I think Lionel did good with their 0-6-0 Dockside switcher. They navigate o27 just fine, pull very well, look good and are pretty affordable.

Hope some of my rambling helps,

J White

I can say for a fact that my PE Berk will not handle 027. Clearances and wheel spacing is too big.

RSJB18 posted:

I can say for a fact that my PE Berk will not handle 027. Clearances and wheel spacing is too big.

What is a "PE Berk" ?  My Berkshire is a 726 made in 1947-49.

Polar Express Berk

Brendan

Sorry yes the newer version of the Berkshire that is branded for the Polar Express. The post war version is different. 

brianel_k-lineguy posted:

 

 

 

Finally, here's a video I have always liked. Maybe you've already seen this one and the one below. You will see some larger engines (no steam though), clearing 027 switches, though there are one or two 42 inch radius switches. That older style Williams GP38 diesel is pretty big and I'm impressed that it cleared all the 027 switch box housings. There's also some larger rolling stock, like a Weaver shorter covered Borax hopper. While the length of that car is shorter, the width of it is wider than the typical Lionel car and yet it clears.

And just for fun, here's another video showing postwar steamers and diesels that will run successfully on 027 track and curves.

 

My PC video driver(s) have been corrupted for over a week, and I finally got it/them fixed so I can start watching videos again, thank goodness.  I really like the realistic scenery look that has been incorporated on these layouts.  Very cool and entertaining!  Great Job! 

So, I’ve tried the Berkshire loco as an experiment and the above post is about right - it will negotiate the O31 curve but looks fairly ridiculous. 

As this is intended to be an exhibition layout, viewed primarily from one side the plan is to look for more O31 and O54 track, and concentrate the O31 stuff where it is least visible but space saving is most valuable. 

I actually use the Berkshire more on my big test loop that has O-72 curves.  Then I can run it with Madison, Manhattan and Irvington.

@juniata guy posted:

I’ve attached a close up photo of a switch so you can see what I’m talking about.

What are these devices(circled) that look like capacitors, and what is their function in this application?

I think (correct me if this is wrong) that with the post war *steamers* 4 digits noted O27 specific locos... i.e.,  2020, 2035, 2037, 2046 etc.  Or was it the preface 20 for any loco?  This is not to say that some 3 digit steamers would not work on O27... just that it would not be optimal.

@Dennis-LaRock posted:

post war *steamers* 4 digits noted O27 specific locos... i.e.,  2020, 2035, 2037, 2046 etc.  This is not to say that some 3 digit steamers would not work on O27... just that it would not be optimal.

2020=671
2035=675
2037=637
2046=646

All identical equivalents. Not really a good rule of thumb.

Rockershovel,

I started building my layout just last June.  As with you, I wanted to go as inexpensive as possible, and try to build a nice layout, but as compact as possible (4ft x 8ft).  So, I started out with a lot of used 027 track, as well as about six 027 tin hand switches that I got for really cheap at a flea market train shop.

When I was asking design questions, many of the regulars on this board advised me to just go to standard 031 track.  It is a bit more expensive when bought used (but not very much at all), is taller in height, looks much more realistic, allows engines to run faster and more smoothly on the curves,  and eliminates forever all of the questions and issues of which locomotives and cars will run well on the tracks and switches and which will derail.

Well, I assembled out my all of my 027 on the floor in my desired layout, within the 8ft x 4ft layout board size I wanted, and I soon realized that almost all of the 027 curves could be replaced with 031 curves with little or no problems.   So, I started doing that on the floor.  When I was done with that, I found that I only had to increase the width and length of the planned table by about 6 inches or so to have the entire layout in standard 031 gauge.   

I had plenty of basement space to have a slightly bigger table, so now realizing the wisdom of the board, I went totally to 031 used track.   Yea, I lost a little money on trading out my 027 track, but only about $20, and I made up for that by selling the tin 027 switches for more than I paid.  Even had I not made up that money, it would have still switched to the 031.   You can barely buy a boxcar for $20, and  for me, the benefits of 031 vastly outweighed the burdens of O27.

Once I started the actual building of my table, I saw that by just increasing the length and width of the table by an even one foot, I could have the freedom of building a much nicer layout for myself with lots of room for accessories.

My table and track layout are finished now, and I couldn't be happier.   

There is nothing wrong per se with 027 track, and many people love it for the nostalgia, compactness, or railroad pieces they already own.    But, if you are starting out fresh, or even relatively fresh, I would really consider increasing your table dimensions somewhat and going totally with the 031.   I believe it will eliminate a lot of headaches for you.

Mannyrock

@Mannyrock posted:

Rockershovel,

..is taller in height, looks much more realistic...

At a scale 33" tall to the top of the railhead, the height & appearance of "O" is off-putting for a permanent layout.

I can't argue with that Rob.  :-)

I guess that the thin tin-look of the tie rails in the O27 is a bit unrealistic looking for me.

Thanks,

Mannyrock

@ADCX Rob posted:

What are these devices(circled) that look like capacitors, and what is their function in this application?

Rob:

You have a sharp eye!  Those are indeed disk capacitors.

Two MTH PS2 engines, when approaching a switch on my layout would go into a shutdown and restart by themselves.  A fellow O gauge club member correctly diagnosed the problem as being the short electronic burst the non-derailing function of the switch puts out. Apparently these short bursts are on the same frequency as the shutdown and restart on some PS2 engines. The solution was to install the disk capacitors on the terminals of my switches.  This “masks” the non-derailing electronic burst from the engine’s electronics. ( I’ll note I’ve never had this issue with PS3 engines, only PS2 and even then just two - a C&O F3 ABA set and a PRR GG1.)

I was able to get by with two disk capacitors on some switches whereas a few required four. In any event; adding these disk capacitors completely eliminated the shutdown and restart issue.

Curt

@Mannyrock posted:

I can't argue with that Rob.  :-)

I guess that the thin tin-look of the tie rails in the O27 is a bit unrealistic looking for me.

Thanks,

Mannyrock

I had to chuckle at this post. Not only would I not argue with Rob, but I've been tempted to send him and several others on this forum a check for all the great advice and "tows" out of an O Gauge ditch.

@juniata guy posted:

Rob:

You have a sharp eye!  Those are indeed disk capacitors.

Have you tried instead using a 33 volt or 36 volt TVS diode onboard the problem engines to clamp the transients?

Another solution would be to change the switches over to DC fixed accessory voltage with Bob Nelson's CD circuit so you can park on the switches without the buzzing, or overheating the solenoids.

@ADCX Rob posted:

Have you tried instead using a 33 volt or 36 volt TVS diode onboard the problem engines to clamp the transients?

Another solution would be to change the switches over to DC fixed accessory voltage with Bob Nelson's CD circuit so you can park on the switches without the buzzing, or overheating the solenoids.

Rob:

No sir.  The disk capacitors were what was suggested to me and they were both inexpensive and incredibly easy to install.  They ARE noticeable - I’ll admit that but, they’ve worked perfectly now for at least a decade.

Curt