Last Day of the NYO&W, March 29, 1957

That's the interesting thing about old stations, they always seem to find new uses for them. The one in the town over from me has been a station(of course), a restaurant, and currently a bank. The platform for boarding I think they use as drive up with the suction tubes. They can't drive around the station because of the tracks, but they can loop at back they way they came in. Looks weird.

I have seen a lot of neat NYO&W over the years but that last picture takes the cake...

Peter, that's a great idea to photograph NYO&W sites.

Dave, Yes it is always great to see old railroad stations repurposed.  The B&O station in the little town of Mars, Pennsylvania near where I grew up was bought by the Mars Area historical society, completely refurbished, and now they have expanded to a couple of new buildings and a caboose.  It was great to see the station in it's like new glory after so many years unused.

Ben, Great observation!! 

If I recall correctly, the NYO&W cessation of operations was the largest railroad abandonment since the 1918 Colorado Midland event. Of course, we have seen much larger ones subsequently.

Am a big fan of the OW Otto Kuhler stream-styled maroon and orange with chrome trim 4-8-2 #405, which was an attempt to lure back passenger traffic in the late '30's.

Can anyone confirm if the OW was the primary passenger conveyance for people going to the Catskills Resorts, known as the "Borscht Belt"?   It produced a couple generations of the best comedians ever!

@Putnam Division posted:

65 years ago, the New York , Ontario & Western railroad ran a train for the last time and folded up.....

Photographing its remaining sites was going to be a retirement activity of mine.....the pandemic thought differently. It is something I will get to, eventually.

Dont wait too long.  Quite a bit of the former NYNH yard infrastructure in my hometown remained into the late 1990s, including the 1800's freight station, tracks (albeit barely visible), coal ramp, feed mill, etc.  Fortunately I took numerous pics back then anticipating that some day I'd model the area.  Well i finally am building the model and everything is disappearing fast. The freight station was torn down (tho still solid), the tracks torn up, etc. all for solar panels and storage units.

@mark s posted:

If I recall correctly, the NYO&W cessation of operations was the largest railroad abandonment since the 1918 Colorado Midland event. Of course, we have seen much larger ones subsequently.

Am a big fan of the OW Otto Kuhler stream-styled maroon and gold 4-8-2, which was an attempt to lure back passenger traffic in the late '30's.

Can anyone confirm if the OW was the primary passenger conveyance for people going to the Catskills Resorts, known as the "Borscht Belt"?   It produced a couple generations of the best comedians ever!

Yes, it was the 1st Class 1 RR to completely close down.....

Until Route 17 was upgraded and autos were commonplace, it was the main mode of transportation to the Catskills......

It died due to the usual culprits:

1. The loss of coal traffic out of northeast PA.

2. The loss of milk traffic due to trucking.

3. The loss of passenger revenue due to the automobile.

The O&W was never very healthy and was always a step away from bankruptcy.

Peter

I remember the O&W well, and was in high school when she ended operations. A year or so later (1958 or 1959) while rail fanning at the big Croxton Erie Facility in Seacaus, NJ, we saw the O&W FT units all lined up "for sale". Don't remember who ever purchased them.

The O & W ran trains up through the Catskills, and before auto traffic and good roads, was a way for sportsmen from the metropolitan area to get to hunting and fishing lodges and camps around Roscoe, NY. I believe there’s a small museum in Roscoe dedicated to the O & W., right off Route 17. Roscoe is also known as “Trout Town, USA”.

Great pix Peter. Who was that distinguished looking gentleman holding the cake?????

Not a train station, but the Village of Garden Chamber of Commerce here on Long Island, uses an old Toll Lodge from the Vanderbilt Long Island Motor Parkway as their office.

Peter, Thanks for reminding the old fans like me of that abandonment.  While I was raised a New Haven Fan, I became aware of the O&W when I relocated up near Schenectady NY and had sales territory in many areas where the O&W railroad ran. There  were four tunnels on the line and to the best of my knowledge, three are still there but obviously not in RR use, Also a number of buildings including the Breakstone Cottage Cheese plant in Walton which is now a Kraft Foods Plant. The station at Cadosia was still standing  and the bridge pillars still there as well. Much of the old right-of -way is still visible.  I became a fan and because the New Haven took a controlling interest in the O&W in the early 1900's, and even though that association didn't last long, it was enough to interest me in having both railroads on my layout. There are two fine books on the history of the O&W, A book by professor Helmer entitled the "O&W" and " To The Mountains By Rail" . The O&W also has a very nice historical group. while some historians said it should have never been built, it did provide for one interesting RR. Bill

@Artie-DL&W posted:

The O & W ran trains up through the Catskills, and before auto traffic and good roads, was a way for sportsmen from the metropolitan area to get to hunting and fishing lodges and camps around Roscoe, NY. I believe there’s a small museum in Roscoe dedicated to the O & W., right off Route 17. Roscoe is also known as “Trout Town, USA”.

Yes....the O&W Museum is in Roscoe.

The main station in Middletown is slated for restoration.

I belong to the NYO&W RR Historical Society......due to the pandemic, I've been able to attend a few Zoom meetings........

Peter

@Bill Park posted:

Peter, Thanks for reminding the old fans like me of that abandonment.  While I was raised a New Haven Fan, I became aware of the O&W when I relocated up near Schenectady NY and had sales territory in many areas where the O&W railroad ran. There  were four tunnels on the line and to the best of my knowledge, three are still there but obviously not in RR use, Also a number of buildings including the Breakstone Cottage Cheese plant in Walton which is now a Kraft Foods Plant. The station at Cadosia was still standing  and the bridge pillars still there as well. Much of the old right-of -way is still visible.  I became a fan and because the New Haven took a controlling interest in the O&W in the early 1900's, and even though that association didn't last long, it was enough to interest me in having both railroads on my layout. There are two fine books on the history of the O&W, A book by professor Helmer entitled the "O&W" and " To The Mountains By Rail" . The O&W also has a very nice historical group. while some historians said it should have never been built, it did provide for one interesting RR. Bill

Bill.....I'm a fan of the NH due to my early life (up to age 22) living along side the NH line in the northeast Bronx. As a kid, my family used to vacation in the Catskills, and seeing the old O&W station gave me the impetus to become a fan.......the other RR of my "like triumvirate" is the Central.....of which you are probably very much familiar.....

As an aside, my MTH O&W F units were delivered on 3/29/2007.....the 50th anniversary....

Peter

Books on the O&W that I've read and can recommend....

The O&W RR Historical has tons of detailed information......here's a sample of what I've acquired in the short time (~20 years) that I've been a member.....

Have a great and safe day, folks.....

Peter

.....ooops.....almost forgot this guy!  Another excellent read.....

Peter

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

That's the interesting thing about old stations, they always seem to find new uses for them.

The town I live in. Branchville NJ, had a station that was in use until the mid 60's.  From what I've read (I love local history), a gentleman who owned an adjacent tractor and feed store bought it and attempted to move it, but it collapsed.  It would have been great had it not and was still around.

I consider myself somewhat of an amateur railroad-archaeologist.   Up here in Sussex county NJ there are tons of rail-trails. 

@Frank Mulligan posted:

The town I live in. Branchville NJ, had a station that was in use until the mid 60's.  From what I've read (I love local history), a gentleman who owned an adjacent tractor and feed store bought it and attempted to move it, but it collapsed.  It would have been great had it not and was still around.

I consider myself somewhat of an amateur railroad-archaeologist.   Up here in Sussex county NJ there are tons of rail-trails.

I've been to Branchville quite a number of times, on the DL&W. From about 1955/1956 the Lackawanna was my home town railroad in Chatham, after we relocated from Cranford, NJ on the CRRofNJ. I remember that an organization even sponsored an excursion to Branchville and return, out of Hoboken Terminal. Lots of fun, and a few photographs from the late 1950s. I think the DL&W used to get quite a few cars of milk out of Branchville, back in those days.

@locolawyer posted:

Good afternoon Peter,

Now that you are retired, I was hoping you would also bake me a cake. Choclate please, and bring it to the Olive Garden in York on April 29. If that does not work, your birthday and mine are June 7, so I would be willing to share your birthdy cake, preferably choclate.  

Erol

Erol.....I wished that lady still lived around here....she was amazing......and, it tasted as good as it looks!

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for posting and reminding us of the event. I'm an O&W fan b/c the town I grew up in was a major town on the line. I'm referring to Norwich, New York, the final bastion of steam on the NYO&W. Norwich featured a large yard, fully equipped round house, large coaling piles, as well as numerous smaller buildings. There was also a passenger/freight station. The house my parents rented was very close to the tracks. However, we arrived too late to see any activity other than the tracks being lifted. (Something my 4 year mind could not comprehend.) The City eventually bought the land where the yard and roundhouse stood and demolished most of the buildings. Today, the Norwich High School occupies the area. Unless things have changed since I was last there, I can find where the turntable was located.

You did miss one very compelling reason for the Old Woman's failure: There were no large bustling cities on the line in New York. One cannot call Norwich, a city of ~10,000 in its heyday, exactly large and bustling! The RR built to the communities that would pay to have them. No $$, no train! And unfortunately for the short sighted NYO&W, that meant no long term revenue.

Hotwater,

Except for the 806 and 807 AB pairs which went to the B&O, none of the FTs ever earned a single dime after the shutdown. They languished in a yard for many years before finally being scrapped. All NYO&W FTs were scrapped by 1968. At least one F3 lasted until 1970.

Chris

LVHR

I thought this kit from the Old and Weary Car Shop based on an NYO&W tool shed would like nice on the layout.

Operating from memory, Trains Magazine had a JJ Young Jr photo of a NYO&W  A/B set of FT's assisting a B&O EM1 2-8-8-4, in the 1958, or so, era.

@Putnam Division posted:

The main station in Middletown is slated for restoration.

Yes it is...https://railfan.com/former-new...kcBDbFo0L7wrg-DRu5pY

Maybe you need a set of these for your layout Peter.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Maybe you need a set of these for your layout Peter.

I picked mine up from Chesterfield Hobbies on March 29, 2007.....the 50th anniversary.

Here they are now.....3rd row down on the left side......with the matching heavyweights:

Funny thing about the F units....the O&W had FTs and F3s

The FTs were used for freight and summer passenger trains. The did not have the ability to supply AC or heat.....in the summer, you just opened the windows.

The F3s were used for freight and passenger, in both winter or summer. No AC.....you still opened the windows. However, the F3s had the controls to supply heat. No steam generators. The O&W took two coal tenders from their large steamers (I think the 2-10-4s), and turned them into steam generators and painted them to match the engines....they look like "baby B units"

Peter

@mark s posted:

Operating from memory, Trains Magazine had a JJ Young Jr photo of a NYO&W  A/B set of FT's assisting a B&O EM1 2-8-8-4, in the 1958, or so, era.

To help fill in the gaps, it was a Delaware & Hudson Class J Challenger (4-6-6-4) in the photo, not B&O.  Photo was on the D&H's Penn Division, now sadly also abandoned.  All D&H 1500 class Challengers were scrapped in 1952-53, making the photo date closer to 1950 than 1958.  As other posts here indicate, O&W itself was gone by the end of the first quarter 1957.  NYO&W was a great railroad; still sadly missed by its fans.

Thanks for the great thread.  The pictures are awesome!!!   That cake is also a masterpiece, and what a meaningful gesture by your friends at work!  And, that's such a wonderful compliment.

It's times like this when we have to ask ( or even beg! ) Lionel to please make the O & W Mountaineer limited. Preferably as a Vision Line Item. (Not  like that stupid looking engine MTH Railking made and tried to pass off as the Mountaineer )

Bill Chaplik - It was a B&O EM1 being assisted by ex-NY&OW FT's, then owned by B&O.......     It was a photo in the News section of Trains and it was celebrating the re-deployment of OW locomotives.   Am unaware of the D&H photo, but quite a bit of Mr. Young's excellent photo material is now showing up on the internet, so, no doubt, your reference is quite accurate, but a different one then mine.

Public TV had a show on last evening concerning humor in the Catskills, or the Borscht Belt.  Some interviews were cited about when New Yorkers took the train to the Catskill resorts, they would be covered with soot.    Presume that was NY&OW soot!

Nope.  The O&W burned anthracite.  No soot.  The Erie was sooty!

Jon

This thread has been such a pleasure to read and be part of. Another railroad that was intwined with the O&W was the New York, Buffalo and West Shore which ran up the west side of the Hudson River and then along the south side of the Mohawk river finally ending up in Buffalo. According to Professor Helmer's book on the O&W, some of the money needed to finalize and complete the O&W came from the West Shore. According to the book, George Pullman was unsuccessful in getting Commodore Van Der Built, who owned the New York Central, to purchase his Pullman cars and there in was the catalyst for Pullman to help get the rivals roads going. The West Shore of course fell under Central Control after a devastating rate war. A lot of it was abandoned, but pieces of it were in operation during the eighties. A piece form Rotterdam Junction to Canajoharie actually had some freight on it until then. I am far from an expert on this. Does anyone have any information to share on this one. Bill

Maybe my memory is bad.  But in the 1970's I thought some coal mine in the SE USA bougjt some SD40-2's and had them painted into the O&W.  I think I saw the pictures in X2200S locomotive magazine.

@Bill Park posted:

Peter, Thanks for reminding the old fans like me of that abandonment.  While I was raised a New Haven Fan, I became aware of the O&W when I relocated up near Schenectady NY and had sales territory in many areas where the O&W railroad ran. There  were four tunnels on the line and to the best of my knowledge, three are still there but obviously not in RR use, Also a number of buildings including the Breakstone Cottage Cheese plant in Walton which is now a Kraft Foods Plant. The station at Cadosia was still standing  and the bridge pillars still there as well. Much of the old right-of -way is still visible.  I became a fan and because the New Haven took a controlling interest in the O&W in the early 1900's, and even though that association didn't last long, it was enough to interest me in having both railroads on my layout. There are two fine books on the history of the O&W, A book by professor Helmer entitled the "O&W" and " To The Mountains By Rail" . The O&W also has a very nice historical group. while some historians said it should have never been built, it did provide for one interesting RR. Bill

By the way, your layout is gorgeous.......

Peter

@lehighline posted:

Peter,

Thanks for posting and reminding us of the event. I'm an O&W fan b/c the town I grew up in was a major town on the line. I'm referring to Norwich, New York, the final bastion of steam on the NYO&W. Norwich featured a large yard, fully equipped round house, large coaling piles, as well as numerous smaller buildings. There was also a passenger/freight station. The house my parents rented was very close to the tracks. However, we arrived too late to see any activity other than the tracks being lifted. (Something my 4 year mind could not comprehend.) The City eventually bought the land where the yard and roundhouse stood and demolished most of the buildings. Today, the Norwich High School occupies the area. Unless things have changed since I was last there, I can find where the turntable was located.

You did miss one very compelling reason for the Old Woman's failure: There were no large bustling cities on the line in New York. One cannot call Norwich, a city of ~10,000 in its heyday, exactly large and bustling! The RR built to the communities that would pay to have them. No $$, no train! And unfortunately for the short sighted NYO&W, that meant no long term revenue.

Hotwater,

Except for the 806 and 807 AB pairs which went to the B&O, none of the FTs ever earned a single dime after the shutdown. They languished in a yard for many years before finally being scrapped. All NYO&W FTs were scrapped by 1968. At least one F3 lasted until 1970.

Chris

LVHR

Chris....the home layout looks great!

Peter

Peter,

Wait until you see what is coming next!

Chris

LVHR

NYO&W station Wurtsboro, NY