Does anyone know when, if not already, when the latest (and last) supply of MTH DCS remotes are available?
I woud like to get one more for safe keeping. Replies are appreciated.
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My LHS and forum sponsor Imperial Train Company has 3 new in package remotes that came in last week. Upgraded to 6.1. Give them a call.
Phone: 724-695-7552
Did I miss the memo? “The latest (and last) supply of MTH DCS remotes.” Is the DCS remote being discontinued, or am I reading the comment wrong?
Lv4trains posted:Did I miss the memo? “The latest (and last) supply of MTH DCS remotes.” Is the DCS remote being discontinued, or am I reading the comment wrong?
MTH has indicated they might discontinue the remote in favor of the App but I'm not sure they have made a firm decision yet.
I have been told that at the DCS USers Group meeting at York that an MTH executive was quoted as saying that the last batch was being shipped to the USA. Personally, as one to has many trains at a time operating over intersecting routes, I think that is a mistake.
Hopefully, this statement will not open the flood gates to a torrent of conflicting opinions. 
I can't speak for the DCS meeting last month, but the one held at the spring meet in April, conveyed the same message. They want to promote the app, and are in fact, not producing the remote any longer.
ok I just went to the google app store and could not find anything for MTH DCS, any help?
RJR posted:I have been told that at the DCS USers Group meeting at York that an MTH executive was quoted as saying that the last batch was being shipped to the USA. Personally, as one to has many trains at a time operating over intersecting routes, I think that is a mistake.
Hopefully, this statement will not open the flood gates to a torrent of conflicting opinions.
Unfortunately for those who like a remote MTH has found a viable alternative to a hardware remote in the App. They will no longer have to produce, keep a large parts inventory, or keep software development for it. With the App it's much easier to develop software to run on hardware developed by someone else.
While I personally like a dedicated remote, there is very little downside for MTH to move in this direction from both a financial and manufacturing point. I would have thought the remotes would of lasted at least a couple more years but the App has been fairly successful if this forum is any indication so I'm guessing they feel good about moving forward without it. I suspect eventually Lionel will do the same but I don't think their App has gained enough momentum to have that happen soon.
mike g. posted:ok I just went to the google app store and could not find anything for MTH DCS, any help?
Here is the link to the MTH WiFi page. It has a link at the bottom for the Google Play for the App.
Now this story is really funny. MTH really needs to talk to VIZIO about going to an APP only approach. The new VIZIO TV's were shipped with a very basic remote. They also were depending on an APP to control their TV's. Then they found out the hard way the APP did not work on all smartphones. Also many people like me do not even have a smartphone. Without running the APP you have no way to get to the settings to set up an operate the TV.
They are now in the process of shipping out remotes to so many people that there is an 8 week delay because of the numbers needed.
Newer does not mean better.... Geeks think APPS can do everything
MartyE posted:I suspect eventually Lionel will do the same but I don't think their App has gained enough momentum to have that happen soon.
Lionel’s strategy cannot gain any momentum in its current form. For beginners, and those upgrading from conventional control, one must first buy a Legacy remote with base, LCS Wi-Fi unit, DB9 cable, and last but not least, the $50 Icab app. That’s a formidable $500 entry barrier. Even worse, the confusing aspects regarding which LCS components and cables are necessary, how they are installed, and subsequently operated, generates confusion and a tremendous sales deterrence for many customers. You should see the blank looks on customers faces when anyone tries to explain this stuff.
To move forward, they need to offer a single box, that contains a Legacy base (without remote), with Wi-Fi capability, and a simple quick installation card showing how to download a FREE app for control. All in one box, with reduced cost. Simple. Done.
GregR posted:MartyE posted:I suspect eventually Lionel will do the same but I don't think their App has gained enough momentum to have that happen soon.Lionel’s strategy cannot gain any momentum in its current form. For beginners, and those upgrading from conventional control, one must first buy a Legacy remote with base, LCS Wi-Fi unit, DB9 cable, and last but not least, the $50 Icab app. That’s a formidable $500 entry barrier. Even worse, the confusing aspects regarding which LCS components and cables are necessary, how they are installed, and subsequently operated, generates confusion and a tremendous sales deterrence for many customers. You should see the blank looks on customers faces when anyone tries to explain this stuff.
To move forward, they need to offer a single box, that contains a Legacy base (without remote), with Wi-Fi capability, and a simple quick installation card showing how to download a FREE app for control. All in one box, with reduced cost. Simple. Done.
Can't say I disagree with most of what you posted. My experience though is most "customers" that are looking for LCS components already know what they need and are doing.
I like the LCS components for the reason of locally placing them near an area of control with one PDI cable but wish there was less of them with more of a generic "one box does all" or as much as it can. The ACS2 and STM2 are a perfect example. These 2 units could have been 1 device. Now granted the STM came along afterward to fill a need to status the LCS iPad app but still a new module could be produced. Time and money I guess.
The nice thing about LCS is the iPad app to control the layout rather than running trains. Much easier to throw switches, activate accessories, and even control Turn Tables.
But price wise the 2 systems are fairly equal at the base level. Obviously adding LCS or AIUs changes that dynamic.
the apps work well on PADs and tablets by Apple or Samsung. My Note 8 not so much. With tablets costing $50 that's far less expensive than remotes.
One day we may be able to have track displays on DCS app tablets that can be set up around a layout to control local switches and accessories from the tablet display.
Mike,
I just went to the google app store and could not find anything for MTH DCS, any help?
Search for "mth dcs" without the quotes. It's there.
" For beginners, and those upgrading from conventional control, one must first buy a Legacy remote with base, LCS Wi-Fi unit, DB9 cable, and last but not least, the $50 Icab app. That’s a formidable $500 entry barrier."
I disagree. The higher cost is actually the MTH approach for most scenarios. Every Lionel loco being sold from here on out requires nothing other than the controller that comes with the set or loco (LionChief and LionChief+), or a free app and a smart device (Bluetooth). No need to spend any money whatever on additional controllers such as the TIU/WIU/Legacy. MTH will have the Explorer in sets, which no one has yet seen or consumer tested yet. It can reportedly control three locos, so you're set for up to that number. You do need to have a smartphone or tablet. No controller comes with the set, unlike the Lionel sets. Lionel sets all have a physical remote, and will also operate by smartdevice with the free app that uses Bluetooth.
For moving beyond an initial set, no one will need Legacy unless they want that expense and features. Each loco, LC/LC+/Legacy will be Bluetooth controllable with a smartdevice, a $50 universal remote, or the remote that comes with the loco (LC/LC+ only). For the MTH approach, beyond the initial 3 locos the Explorer controls, you're into to a $400+ investment in a TIU/WIU, and a smart device will be absolutely required. No DCS handheld remote will be available in the future according to MTH, although I'll bet they change their mind when complaints come in. 
This replaces the remote but depends on the remotes tiu side functionality to be maintained & doesn't come from MTH.
It suggests alternate packaging is possible but no one has done it. I can verify it works, circa ~6 months ago...
http://www.silogic.com/trains/RTC_Running.html
(yeah, ok it's a kind of "day in the life" explainer that probably needs a "just get it" top of the page summary section... but it's possible to read through it, get the right stuff on order, build the interface, load the software on the PC -- and get it to work)
Landsteiner posted:For the MTH approach, beyond the initial 3 locos the Explorer controls, you're into to a $400+ investment in a TIU/WIU, and a smart device will be absolutely required.
Unfortunately, If you want to operate more than three LC or LC+ loco, there are no options available other than have more than one remote control. The current LionCheif app can only operate one Bluetooth equipment locomotive at a time.
https://ogrforum.com/...00#75903721987113000
Railsounds posted:Yes, that is correct. The ability to keep three locomotives in motion simultaneously is a feature of the Universal Remote that is not present in the iOS or Android LionChief Apps.
If you are willing to trade in all of your current Legacy equipped locos for New just arriving replacements with Bluetooth, you can run up to three with the Universal remote (which has limited features compared to the apps offered by Lionel)
For the Lionel approch, operating more than three locos is only possible if you purchase the (much) more expensive Legacy offerings and invest the $500 into a Legacy system with wifi.
H1000 posted:Landsteiner posted:For the MTH approach, beyond the initial 3 locos the Explorer controls, you're into to a $400+ investment in a TIU/WIU, and a smart device will be absolutely required.
Unfortunately, If you want to operate more than three LC or LC+ loco, there are no options available other than have more than one remote control. The current LionCheif app can only operate one Bluetooth equipment locomotive at a time.
How many people are really going to want to run more than three LC or LC+ locomotives with a single remote? I can run many more with the Legacy or DCS remote. I ran five once at a modular show, and I was as busy as a one-armed paper hanger! While this is an "interesting" option, it's hardly a mainstream requirement!
GRJ, if you were a 2-armed paper hangar, keep one remote in each hand and really keep things hopping. One feature the remote has that the app doesn't, that is great when running multiple trains, is the ability to select locos by number. For example, when a half dozen are running and I want to do something with the Y6B, I press ENG, then 2, then 6, and I have the loco up and controlled without sliding & scrolling through screens. Using a remote in each hand, I can use one to throw switches and another to run trains (selecting engines by #). I find it difficult to hold a tablet or smart phone in each hand and slip & slide through screens.
My 12-year-old grandson, who doesn't yet understand how to do lashups (who does?), figured out he can doublehead with a remote in each hand.
gunrunnerjohn posted:H1000 posted:Landsteiner posted:For the MTH approach, beyond the initial 3 locos the Explorer controls, you're into to a $400+ investment in a TIU/WIU, and a smart device will be absolutely required.
Unfortunately, If you want to operate more than three LC or LC+ loco, there are no options available other than have more than one remote control. The current LionCheif app can only operate one Bluetooth equipment locomotive at a time.
How many people are really going to want to run more than three LC or LC+ locomotives with a single remote? I can run many more with the Legacy or DCS remote. I ran five once at a modular show, and I was as busy as a one-armed paper hanger! While this is an "interesting" option, it's hardly a mainstream requirement!
Really, running 5 is that hard?
I run 6 on three tracks on a small layout (12 x 14). Three chase each other with 2 feet of each other and two chase each other within 3 feet of themselves. The constant repetition of the steam chuffing about puts me to sleep. I start them, set a speed, and sit and watch. About every thirty minutes, I slow one down or speed it up because the scale speeds are not perfect and they slowly catch up to each other.
The point of my comment is how robust and expandable is the system. An app that only controls one engine is a big limitation and the only way to expand your empire beyond three running at one time is to purchase the almost most expensive offerings available.
An app that only runs one engine while the others have to stand still... come on.
MartyE posted:RJR posted:I have been told that at the DCS USers Group meeting at York that an MTH executive was quoted as saying that the last batch was being shipped to the USA. Personally, as one to has many trains at a time operating over intersecting routes, I think that is a mistake.
Hopefully, this statement will not open the flood gates to a torrent of conflicting opinions.
Unfortunately for those who like a remote MTH has found a viable alternative to a hardware remote in the App. They will no longer have to produce, keep a large parts inventory, or keep software development for it. With the App it's much easier to develop software to run on hardware developed by someone else.
While I personally like a dedicated remote, there is very little downside for MTH to move in this direction from both a financial and manufacturing point. I would have thought the remotes would of lasted at least a couple more years but the App has been fairly successful if this forum is any indication so I'm guessing they feel good about moving forward without it. I suspect eventually Lionel will do the same but I don't think their App has gained enough momentum to have that happen soon.
I've been thinking, and saying periodically, that Lionel/Mth could make a hybrid solution. They could make a remote that has a speed dial, and maybe a few other key buttons that wirelessly connects to the phone. The phone and phone app does all the heavy lfiting. The physical device just acts a physical buttons for the remote. It could have a cradle that adjusts to hold any phone, and since it connects wirelessly, no need to worry about device compatibility. Heck, some people may just leave the app running on the table and hold the simple remote. It would solve the problems of:
1. I want physical buttons
2. I wnat a simple remote without all the extras buttons I dont use (in a work around way)
3. having to develop fancy hardware
jrmertz posted:MartyE posted:RJR posted:I have been told that at the DCS USers Group meeting at York that an MTH executive was quoted as saying that the last batch was being shipped to the USA. Personally, as one to has many trains at a time operating over intersecting routes, I think that is a mistake.
Hopefully, this statement will not open the flood gates to a torrent of conflicting opinions.
Unfortunately for those who like a remote MTH has found a viable alternative to a hardware remote in the App. They will no longer have to produce, keep a large parts inventory, or keep software development for it. With the App it's much easier to develop software to run on hardware developed by someone else.
While I personally like a dedicated remote, there is very little downside for MTH to move in this direction from both a financial and manufacturing point. I would have thought the remotes would of lasted at least a couple more years but the App has been fairly successful if this forum is any indication so I'm guessing they feel good about moving forward without it. I suspect eventually Lionel will do the same but I don't think their App has gained enough momentum to have that happen soon.
I've been thinking, and saying periodically, that Lionel/Mth could make a hybrid solution. They could make a remote that has a speed dial, and maybe a few other key buttons that wirelessly connects to the phone. The phone and phone app does all the heavy lfiting. The physical device just acts a physical buttons for the remote. It could have a cradle that adjusts to hold any phone, and since it connects wirelessly, no need to worry about device compatibility. Heck, some people may just leave the app running on the table and hold the simple remote. It would solve the problems of:
1. I want physical buttons
2. I wnat a simple remote without all the extras buttons I dont use (in a work around way)3. having to develop fancy hardware
YES!! I have been working on such a solution but lately have not had a lot of time to invest into it. I am using a Bluetooth Nintendo Wii controller that connects to my tablet via Bluetooth. I have a few of the button assignments working for controlling some of the static features (Bell, whistle, direction) in the DCS app, but a lot of work still needs to be done. It's slow road and I should hopefully make some progress this winter.
that's kinda cool sounding. i've been thinking a joystick would be a better controller -- if it knew where switches are too.... then again maybe not.
I was thinking about trying to incorporate the gyroscopes in the Wii controller somehow... I haven't made it that far into the project yet.
Some folks using the BlueRail system are also developing something like this using a MadCatz controller.
So like, lean "this way" to take the turn out?
Possibly, I was thinking up & down tilting would increase or decrease the speed of the selected engine. The big hurdle to overcome, what happens when you accidentally drop the remote!
"An app that only controls one engine is a big limitation and the only way to expand your empire beyond three running at one time is to purchase the almost most expensive offerings available."
Not true. You never have to buy Legacy and the LCS system unless you want to. Unlike DCS/TIU/WIU layouts. No one is really limited to the Lionel app. LC/LC+ locos come with a remote. Legacy locos can operate off a transformer, the Legacy system, the app, or the Universal Remote. You can have a $50 Bluetooth (LC/LC+) remote in one hand controlling three locos and your smart device controlling another one, versus $400 for DCS/TIU/WIU.
Parenthetically, I'd guess that 99% + of individuals rarely or never operate more than one or two locos simultaneously. Unless they are on separate loops. And with two Universal Remotes ($100) you can control up to 6 locos. Is that really a limitation worth worrying about or just another thing to argue about?
Landsteiner posted:You can have a $50 Bluetooth (LC/LC+) remote in one hand controlling three locos and your smart device controlling another one, versus $400 for DCS/TIU/WIU.
As GRJ posted above: "I was as busy as a one-armed paper hanger!"
Landsteiner posted:Legacy locos can operate off a transformer, the Legacy system, the app, or the Universal Remote.
How do I run my current Legacy engines with the Remote or LionCheif app without buying all new replacements with Bluetooth?
"How do I run my current Legacy engines with the Remote or LionCheif app without buying all new replacements with Bluetooth?"
You don't and you don't really need to. You use the Legacy system or TMCC system you bought sometime in the last 20 years, just like you always did. You add the capability to use the Lionel app (all new Lionel locos), the Universal Remote (all new Lionel locos), the included remote for LC/LC+ locos, or your Legacy/TMCC remote (for Legacy locos). It's addition, not subtraction. It's choices, not all that complex for those of us using Lionel products for the last 20+ years. And it's inexpensive and modular. Most of us like having more options, more remotes .
It's like asking how do you run your PS1 locos with DCS in command mode ? You don't and you don't need to. You continue to use conventional is the answer.
In this case, you just keep using the older command technology and everything is 100% compatible.
Landsteiner posted:"How do I run my current Legacy engines with the Remote or LionCheif app without buying all new replacements with Bluetooth?"
You use the Legacy system or TMCC system you bought sometime in the last 20 years, just like you always did. You add the capability to use the Lionel app (all new Lionel locos), the Universal Remote (all new Lionel locos), the included remote for LC/LC+ locos, or your Legacy/TMCC remote (for Legacy locos). It's addition, not subtraction. It's choices, not all that complex for those of us using Lionel products for the last 20+ years. And it's inexpensive and modular. Most of us like having more options, more remotes
It's like how do you run your PS1 locos with DCS
More remotes.... Got it.
I converted my PS1 and some MPC stuff to DCS or TMCC. Are there any Legacy, LionChief, or Bluetooth upgrade kits available from Lionel?
" Are there any Legacy, LionChief, or Bluetooth upgrade kits available from Lionel?"
Not yet, but who knows about the future? When MTH introduced PS2 Mike Wolf initially said "no upgrades." He reconsidered when there were howls of disappointment. Nothing is forever .
It would make more sense, at least to me, to have a Legacy/TMCC to LC/LC+ bridge to address the needs of those who want "one controller to control them all." Bluetooth upgrades are more likely to come from small business licensees than from Lionel, I'd guess. There are already Bluetooth command control suppliers out there in the model train industry. All they need is Lionel's cooperation.
Landsteiner posted:" Are there any Legacy, LionChief, or Bluetooth upgrade kits available from Lionel?"
Not yet, but who knows about the future? When MTH introduced PS2 Mike Wolf initially said "no upgrades." He reconsidered when there were howls of disappointment. Nothing is forever
It would make more sense, at least to me, to have a Legacy/TMCC to LC/LC+ bridge to address the needs of those who want "one controller to control them all." Bluetooth upgrades are likely to come from small licensees than from Lionel, I'd guess. There are already Bluetooth suppliers out there in model trains. All they need is Lionel's cooperation.
I agree, I think a bridge device would be the perfect fit here and it wouldn't take too much to do. Just some time.
IMO, LionChief started out as a very simple operating method not intended for the adults at all. But us "Big Kids" still wanted it and they had to scramble to build a lot more capability into it. I speculate the Bluetooth app has some technical challenges that may be extremely difficult overcome due to limitations of Bluetooth itself and how communication to Bluetooth equipped locos is currently performed. But with Lionel, "never say never", leaps and bounds were made with the recent Universal Remote firmware update.
I think MTH differs because they want to rid themselves of ever making another dedicated handheld remote again. The world has changed much in the last 10 years (since the first iPhone) and smarts devices are everywhere in our lives. I suspect that MTH asked themselves "Why build a finite product that has physical buttons with defined limitations, when you can make software that can be just as easily updated and changed on a whim." (as the LC Universal remote saw expanded functionality with the firmware update). Look how easy it was to add the MAX Speed setting to the DCS Explorer app software when customers requested.
So what time period can we expect for repair support of our remotes?
After reading ALL of the posts so far in this thread, here's what I think.
I see the capabilities of the MTH app,and I think it's a TERRIFIC OPTION if one chooses to run his trains via the app. I see how the app has infinite room for upgrades and expansion, and how much easier it will be to upgrade, and take the control of the trains into the future.
But what about the guys who are HAPPY running with a remote?I realize the tech behind the remote is nearly twenty(yes,20) years old,but what about the idea of MAKING a NEW,IMPROVED REMOTE???,for those of us who want to GET AWAY from a phone or tablet when we run trains?Plenty of us get too much screen time during the day,and would like to just use our remotes to run trains like we have been doing.
A new, improved remote would still promote sales, and surely, this is something that COULD be done.
I don't know the specs of how much memory is left in the old remote design for upgrades, but surely someone on here does.
I heard somewhere that MTH WAS considering making a NEW REMOTE,but the idea was scrapped, in favor of the APP.Is this true?, or was I just hoping that they would ??
How much memory remains in the old remote for upgrades???
Giving the customer choices would seem to be the best solution,but MTH would have to invest more money into the development of a NEW, up to date remote, so a business decision has been made that we'll probably have to live with.
For me, I"ll be sticking with the remote, until it no longer runs the trains, at which point, I guess I'll just stop upgrading the TIU and remote.
I know guys still running the version in the 3's ,and they have no trouble at all with it.
H1000, in answer to your question of what happens to a remote when dropped, I can't answer for what happens when dropped on carpet, but when the grandkids dropped them on the concrete floor the battery cover flies off and the batteries scatter. Once it did break internally, and was repaired at reasonable cost. I have since fitted two with lanyards to go around the neck.
I suspect dropping a tablet on the concrete floor will not be so easily and cheaply repairable.
Ironman, as to the repair period, depends on GGG's life expectancy.
For me, the remote is familiar and comfortable to use. I haven't even upgraded it in years since I'm happy with how the trains run, not even sure what version I'm at. I have an early iPhone and have not ever used an app on it. Phone calls, texting, taking pictures or movies (kind of a joke to me since the quality with my early iPhone is iffy) . I don't have a pad, don't really want one.
My question still stands, how long will support (repairs) be offered for the existing remotes? How frequently do they need repair, and what is repairable in them? Is that frequent? What is the cost of a typical repair? Since you can, for now at least, buy one for about $170.00. When do you say junk it?
RJR,
I guess we were replying at the same time. Lanyard is something I have considered, now with my Grandson helping run the trains!
Joe
I guess I have reached the age where change is not always welcomed. I like running my trains with a remote and will continue to do until I no longer can. Heck.... after ten years, I finally just upgraded the remote and TIU to 6.0.
Lv4trains posted:I guess I have reached the age where change is not always welcomed. I like running my trains with a remote and will continue to do until I no longer can. Heck.... after ten years, I finally just upgraded the remote and TIU to 6.0.
Similar here except bought TIU and remote as a new set years ago and a extra remote(still new) at same time TIU is revision H1 and remote version 2.21 have inner and outer loop with postwar ZW connected outer loop and another postwar ZW connected to inner loop.
Operate both tracks with remote pre and postwar and or mth proto 2.0 engines have 1 proto 3.0 engine and can honestly say tiu and remote have never giving me a problem so far.
Guess i fall into category of not wanting to change as well unless something terrible goes wrong but would still use remote and a tiu and our old postwar ZWs with each one connected to separate loops.
Thats just me.
