Layout Design Feedback

@Justin Acuna posted:

I was thinking about how I could make an around the wall layout work but still be able to access the windows.  Maybe have it sit a little lower than most layouts (it is on the second floor so water leaks wouldn't be a problem)? 30" high would be enough for to be able to reach the windows. What do you think?

Justin,

First, my apologies. I missed your earlier post about the windows being 30" from the floor, so thank you for answering that question again. I think a height of 30" would be too low. My rule of thumb is a minimum height of 36".

Some questions to think about:

• Do you want any part of the layout to be seen in the windows? If the answer is no, then we need to rule out a layout against the windows.
• Will you have family and guests passing each other when they move around the layout? If yes, we need to look at a 36" to 48" walkway around the layout.
• What is the theme of your layout? Are you only interested in a yard and turntable? Do you only want to watch trains run in circles, or do you want to simulate trains moving goods between towns/industries?
• Are you modeling a specific time period, or do you want to be able to run any type of locomotive and rolling stock?
• Do you plan to model any industries/towns/sidings/scenery?
• What is the minimum curve your locomotives can run on? Do you have or plan to purchase any locomotives or rolling stock that require O-72 or greater? If so, will they move in and out of the yard?

I'm not a big fan of the layout you posted above as the space can be better utilized. I think a hybrid of an around the room layout (off the walls/windows) and walk-in layout would suit this space better.

@ChessieFan72 posted:

Justin,

First, my apologies. I missed your earlier post about the windows being 30" from the floor, so thank you for answering that question again. I think a height of 30" would be too low. My rule of thumb is a minimum height of 36".

Some questions to think about:

• Do you want any part of the layout to be seen in the windows? If the answer is no, then we need to rule out a layout against the windows.
• Will you have family and guests passing each other when they move around the layout? If yes, we need to look at a 36" to 48" walkway around the layout.
• What is the theme of your layout? Are you only interested in a yard and turntable? Do you only want to watch trains run in circles, or do you want to simulate trains moving goods between towns/industries?
• Are you modeling a specific time period, or do you want to be able to run any type of locomotive and rolling stock?
• Do you plan to model any industries/towns/sidings/scenery?
• What is the minimum curve your locomotives can run on? Do you have or plan to purchase any locomotives or rolling stock that require O-72 or greater? If so, will they move in and out of the yard?

I'm not a big fan of the layout you posted above as the space can be better utilized. I think a hybrid of an around the room layout (off the walls/windows) and walk-in layout would suit this space better.

• Do you want any part of the layout to be seen in the windows? If the answer is no, then we need to rule out a layout against the windows.

I wouldn't mind so long as I could reach a majority of the windows.

• Will you have family and guests passing each other when they move around the layout? If yes, we need to look at a 36" to 48" walkway around the layout.

I might have a few people now and then, but unless I have company over and they ask to see the layout it would pretty much be just me.

• What is the theme of your layout?

Good question.  I want to model the western part of the USA.

• Are you only interested in a yard and turntable?

Not sure what you mean.

• Do you only want to watch trains run in circles, or do you want to simulate trains moving goods between towns/industries?

I would like to simulate moving goods between towns and industries but not in end-to-end operation.

• Are you modeling a specific time period, or do you want to be able to run any type of locomotive and rolling stock?

I want to model the 50s.  That said, I wouldn't have a problem running modern equipment

• Do you plan to model any industries/towns/sidings/scenery?

Yes, I'm stuck on what to do for industries besides a farm; plan to have a small town, and would like the scenery to look a bit like this photo (obviously not as spacious).

• What is the minimum curve your locomotives can run on?

O-72.

• Do you have or plan to purchase any locomotives or rolling stock that require O-72 or greater? If so, will they move in and out of the yard?

Nope.

@Justin Acuna posted:

• Do you want any part of the layout to be seen in the windows? If the answer is no, then we need to rule out a layout against the windows.

I wouldn't mind so long as I could reach a majority of the windows.

This is where we need to start. Create a a 4' x 2' x 36" module and place it against your windows. Try to open and close your windows. Step back from the module 6" and try to repeat the process. If you can't open and close the windows, then we can rule an around the room layout against the walls out.

Also, I was thinking last night about the number of windows and the distance between them. In short, you will be building a large oval with peninsulas, but I'll discuss this after you make a decision on the location of the layout.

@ChessieFan72 posted:

This is where we need to start. Create a a 4' x 2' x 36" module and place it against your windows. Try to open and close your windows. Step back from the module 6" and try to repeat the process. If you can't open and close the windows, then we can rule an around the room layout against the walls out.

Also, I was thinking last night about the number of windows and the distance between them. In short, you will be building a large oval with peninsulas, but I'll discuss this after you make a decision on the location of the layout.

Will let you know what happens when I do this.

@ChessieFan72 posted:

This is where we need to start. Create a a 4' x 2' x 36" module and place it against your windows. Try to open and close your windows. Step back from the module 6" and try to repeat the process. If you can't open and close the windows, then we can rule an around the room layout against the walls out.

Also, I was thinking last night about the number of windows and the distance between them. In short, you will be building a large oval with peninsulas, but I'll discuss this after you make a decision on the location of the layout.

I was able to reach the window with 4' between the edge and the window, but my reach bottomed out at 50".

@Justin Acuna posted:

I was able to reach the window with 4' between the edge and the window, but my reach bottomed out at 50".

Sorry, have been super busy with outdoor projects (what a vacation, lol) and just popped on and saw your reply. I have a lot of work to get done on the house, so if I don't respond in a couple of days, shoot an email to me.

Are you modeling a specific railroad, or a combination of western railroads?

Now that we know exactly how much room we are working with, it's time to get busy researching your western region in the 1950's. Take a couple of days to do some internet searches on the big western railroads to see what they were hauling. Try to find various pictures of big and small towns along their routes and save pictures and take notes.

I think an oil field, a small farm and a couple of other scenic pieces along the 3 loops will work. I think adding two towns on islands will add interest and provide you with point to point operations so you don't get bored with loops.

@ChessieFan72 posted:

Sorry, have been super busy with outdoor projects (what a vacation, lol) and just popped on and saw your reply. I have a lot of work to get done on the house, so if I don't respond in a couple of days, shoot an email to me.

Are you modeling a specific railroad, or a combination of western railroads?

Now that we know exactly how much room we are working with, it's time to get busy researching your western region in the 1950's. Take a couple of days to do some internet searches on the big western railroads to see what they were hauling. Try to find various pictures of big and small towns along their routes and save pictures and take notes.

I think an oil field, a small farm and a couple of other scenic pieces along the 3 loops will work. I think adding two towns on islands will add interest and provide you with point to point operations so you don't get bored with loops.

Are you modeling a specific railroad, or a combination of western railroads?

Gonna try to model a mixture of the Western Pacific, Southern Pacific and the AT&SF (though I will be leaning more towards the SP since that was the dominate road where I live before UP bought them).

Justin, here's a tip on how to locate scenes and structures. I came across this video on YT searching Southern Pacific 1950's. I snapped a couple of screen shots as examples. The first is the Phoenix station. Notice how busy it is and the architecture. The second is an SP hotel. Take note of the surrounding area, the cars and the hotel itself.

@ChessieFan72 posted:

Justin, here's a tip on how to locate scenes and structures. I came across this video on YT searching Southern Pacific 1950's. I snapped a couple of screen shots as examples. The first is the Phoenix station. Notice how busy it is and the architecture. The second is an SP hotel. Take note of the surrounding area, the cars and the hotel itself.

That's very helpful, thanks.

@ChessieFan72 posted:

Justin, here's a tip on how to locate scenes and structures. I came across this video on YT searching Southern Pacific 1950's. I snapped a couple of screen shots as examples. The first is the Phoenix station. Notice how busy it is and the architecture. The second is an SP hotel. Take note of the surrounding area, the cars and the hotel itself.

I watched a couple of them; now I have questions.  Where can I find o scale roadside equipment (wash stations, diesel fueling plants, etc).

There are many purveyors of model railroad scenery and structure parts, including the railroad related structures you mentioned.  Several of them are forum sponsors here, but many are not.

I don't mean to sound rude, but if you plan to search for models of specific equipment, you will have to do some learning to find what you are looking to find.  For example, searching for "washing stations" might find you car washes, filling stations or laundromats.  However, searching for "locomotive washing equipment" or "train washing equipment" will probably find you what you seek.

Chuck

@PRR1950 posted:

There are many purveyors of model railroad scenery and structure parts, including the railroad related structures you mentioned.  Several of them are forum sponsors here, but many are not.

I don't mean to sound rude, but if you plan to search for models of specific equipment, you will have to do some learning to find what you are looking to find.  For example, searching for "washing stations" might find you car washes, filling stations or laundromats.  However, searching for "locomotive washing equipment" or "train washing equipment" will probably find you what you seek.

Chuck

Don't mean to sound irreverent, but do you know which of them are forum sponsors?

Here are a few suggestions:

https://www.railserve.com/Models/Manufacturers/Structures/

https://modeltechstudios.com/oscaleindustrialequipmentandvehicles.aspx

https://wisemanmodelservices.com/O-Scale-On3-On30

I have to admit, though, that I only found these by doing a DuckDuckGo search; for some reason, the forum sponsor advertising that used to appear at the top of every thread no longer appears for me.  I will investigate that issue.

(OK, figured that out.  My browser Ad Blocker works too well and blocked all OGR forum ads.  Fixed now!)

However, you should know that many items found in the real world, like wash racks for diesels or passenger cars, are frequently not available in O scale proportions, even though they may be readily available in HO and N scales.  That's just a function of the relative sizes of the various markets.  As a result, many O scale modelers custom build from either pictures of the smaller models or pictures of the real thing.  My last link (below) provides pictures of both models and a prototype version of a diesel engine service facility and a wash rack, but NOT in O scale.

rrmodelcraftsman.com/locomotive-maintenance-inspection-terminal/

Chuck

@Justin Acuna posted:

I watched a couple of them; now I have questions.  Where can I find o scale roadside equipment (wash stations, diesel fueling plants, etc).

Justin,

Sorry, my notifications from OGR are heading straight to the spam folder.

Before you jump in and start purchasing products, make a shopping list based on each scene of your layout. Compare the list of scenes to see what products they have in common so you can purchase once and be ready as you move on in the construction of the layout. Some stores offer discounts on multiple items, so this could also save you money. And always shop around for the best price.

Let's look at a yard scene for diesels and what you may find:

• Turntable/Transfer table
• Roundhouse/Diesel shed
• Fuel storage
• Sand storage
• Wash rack
• Maintenance platform

Now, let's take a look at some of the possible details to include:

• Maintenance pit
• Wheel track
• Ballast
• Oil/sand spill
• 55 gallon drums
• Workmen figures

With this list in hand, you can now focus on the supplies you need. Some of these supplies will be easy to find. Some will take a couple of days of searching. Some you will have to build yourself. That's the nature of the beast of O scale.

American Scale Models makes a brass wash rack that resembles the one in the video. It was a limited run and the price tag is around $280. It can be found on eBay and a couple of online stores.

When looking for structures and details for your layout, don't be afraid to look at the finer side of our hobby, such as 2r and Proto48. A couple of places you can look for O scale resources are O Scale Kings, O Scale Resource magazine, and proto48.org. (There are more out there.) Also, seek out all scale websites and magazines such as MRH (Model Railroad Hobbyist) that talk about O scale products. The resources are out there, but sometimes we need a little help finding them.

Sometime after the weekend, I'll pop in to see where you're at and begin to discuss track plan and benchwork ideas. I'll also add at this point that you don't have to have a gigantic layout, especially if this is your first permanent layout. If you start with a smaller layout, you can learn layout building skills, build your layout inventory and run a train or two for fun.

Have you decided on which brand of track you will be using?

@ChessieFan72 posted:

Justin,

Sorry, my notifications from OGR are heading straight to the spam folder.

Before you jump in and start purchasing products, make a shopping list based on each scene of your layout. Compare the list of scenes to see what products they have in common so you can purchase once and be ready as you move on in the construction of the layout. Some stores offer discounts on multiple items, so this could also save you money. And always shop around for the best price.

Let's look at a yard scene for diesels and what you may find:

• Turntable/Transfer table
• Roundhouse/Diesel shed
• Fuel storage
• Sand storage
• Wash rack
• Maintenance platform

Now, let's take a look at some of the possible details to include:

• Maintenance pit
• Wheel track
• Ballast
• Oil/sand spill
• 55 gallon drums
• Workmen figures

With this list in hand, you can now focus on the supplies you need. Some of these supplies will be easy to find. Some will take a couple of days of searching. Some you will have to build yourself. That's the nature of the beast of O scale.

American Scale Models makes a brass wash rack that resembles the one in the video. It was a limited run and the price tag is around $280. It can be found on eBay and a couple of online stores.

When looking for structures and details for your layout, don't be afraid to look at the finer side of our hobby, such as 2r and Proto48. A couple of places you can look for O scale resources are O Scale Kings, O Scale Resource magazine, and proto48.org. (There are more out there.) Also, seek out all scale websites and magazines such as MRH (Model Railroad Hobbyist) that talk about O scale products. The resources are out there, but sometimes we need a little help finding them.

Sometime after the weekend, I'll pop in to see where you're at and begin to discuss track plan and benchwork ideas. I'll also add at this point that you don't have to have a gigantic layout, especially if this is your first permanent layout. If you start with a smaller layout, you can learn layout building skills, build your layout inventory and run a train or two for fun.

Have you decided on which brand of track you will be using?

• Turntable/Transfer table

Probably going to go with a 34" Millhouse River Studios 3 rail turntable (if it matters I wouldn't do more than 19 stalls).

• Roundhouse/Diesel shed

Thinking of having this company RIGHT ON TRACK MODELS - HOME do a custom build so I can have an accurate model of a former SP roundhouse.

• Fuel storage
• Sand storage
• Wash rack

Definitely gonna need these.

• Maintenance platform

I was thinking of having maintenance stuff happen in the roundhouse.

Now, let's take a look at some of the possible details to include:

• Maintenance pit
• Wheel track
• Ballast

Not sure whether you mean a pile of ballast or which brand of ballast I'm using, but a wheel track next to the roundhouse and a maintenance pit in the roundhouse sounds good.

• Oil/sand spill
• 55 gallon drums
• Workmen figures

Personally never been a huge fan of figures but definitely interested in the other two.

Have you decided on which brand of track you will be using?

Either Ross or Atlas, trying to figure out the pros and cons of each.

I'm a proponent of "around the walls" layouts. The two big items are better viewing and ease of access (both to the interior operating space and to derailed equipment). A lift out/bridge is much easier to deal with than an access hatch, especially when your knees give out as you age.

I used to be able to get up into the access hatches at AGHR with minimal effort. Now that I'm suing me knees for non-support I have to push up on something -- let alone the pain of crawling underneath the layout. Now we flagrantly abuse child labor laws and have the "AGHR Kids" to that kind of work.