LCS wifi module?

Flash, is this what you were looking for?

"Note that TMCC2 commands cannot be injected directly into the Command Base’s serial port (Legacy Base or Base--‐1L). An LCS SER2 or LCS WiFi device is required to

inject TMCC2 commands into the base."

I guess so.

Just wondering how the SER2 or wifi device does that.

Flash, obviously the presence of the SER2 or WiFi module unlocks the base to accept the extended commands.  Exactly how it's locked or unlocked is somewhat moot I would guess.

 

Well, It seems like a hardware limitation.

It doesn't matter what communication device you have plugged into the serial port on the base. The data is sent into the base through one pin.

If lionel says that only TMCC data can go directly into the serial port, then it seems that the ONE pin is limited.

If that is true, then legacy commands must rely on a additional pin for communications. And the SER2/wifi module utilize that other pin.

This would make sense if Legacy is a two-way communication system.

(TMCC is one-way)

Looks like Dale M provided the answer in another thread.

 

Regarding what is required to interface, the Legacy Base has not one, but four I/O paths on the 9-pin serial connector.  The Base contains 2 2-channel serial chips.

 

When you connect a TMCC Base to the Legacy Base, the cable uses one of the three "new" channels while preserving access to pins 2 and 3 for external serial devices. 

 

I would guess that Lionel is using some of the remaining ports for their new items, and the protocol on those ports is customized to work with their new LCS add-ons.

 

Actually, the serial interface on the Legacy base is most decidedly two-way, else the LSU wouldn't work, and you couldn't do stuff like the black module updates and create multi-engine config modules.

 

As for the other serial paths, hard to say what they're doing there, but it could simply be an encryption issue using the standard serial link.

 

I would expect that the serial interface on the 9-pin connection is quite standard, otherwise there would be all sorts of issues when connecting to computers, USB adaptors etc. However, the content of the data sent along the serial connection is another story entirely. 

 

 Last summer when I was at the Lionel open house, It looked like the wireless

 module just plugged into the serial port.  ( from what I could tell )

 Someone from the Chicago land RR club was doing some testing with the guy

 from Lionel. My understanding is that they took it to Chicago and ran it via

 WiFi and ipad software. Maybe someone from that group will chime in....

 

 

I would expect that the serial interface on the 9-pin connection is quite standard, otherwise there would be all sorts of issues when connecting to computers, USB adaptors etc. However, the content of the data sent along the serial connection is another story entirely.

 

The "standard" for the interface is kind of loose.  There are definitions of the pins and what they were intended to be used for in terms of hooking up to a modem.  

 

No one is doing that so the only ones that are truly "standard" are 2,3,5, aka transmit/receive/signal ground.  If you aren't using a modem and you are talking to something you designed you can pretty much do whatever you would like.

 

WiFi does plug into the serial port.  I was able to connect my iPad up to it at the open house in Ohio last August.  Took about 30 seconds.  Since I didn't have the layout drawing that matched what was on the table I couldn't do much but the wifi connectivity worked fine (aka my iPad saw the device).  

 

One note of caution regarding this.  I'm pretty sure that once you bind the iPad to the base you lose the main internet connection in the house (aka your main wifi router).  I'm not sure if the iPad can talk to two network devices on the same connection at the same time, e.g. two 802.x "bases".  I know you could use WiFi and BlueTooth (the external keyboards do that) but I don't think the link device is using BlueTooth?

So the WiFi unit is acting as a router and not another wireless device like a tablet it self.  It was a wireless device, then you could connect both the WiFi unit and your tablet to your router and not loose internet but still have the WiFi unit and tablet talk.  It'll really surprise me is Lionel made it a router instead of a wireless device, as that's like a 90's way of doing things.

I don't know what it will do in a "home" environment as the repair center didn't seem to be advertising any other nets.   

 

The app does give you an error message when it can't find a "base" which is what it is doing right now.  I don't see any settings for the LCS app in the main control panel so i'm not 100% sure how it talks to the wifi module.  I can't remember the details of the actual link other than it was pretty easy/painless.  That's also why I put down "I'm pretty sure" instead of I know it will do ……  In most cases you can only talk to one subnet at a time on a given interface.

Maybe Rudy or somone else from Lionel can confirm, but I suspect that the Lionel device is a WiFi direct device.  That is it can form a direct connection with multiple WiFi clients like a normal access point but does not route.  That is all of the devices can talk to the Lionel device but not each other.  Your WiFi iPad when connected to the Lionel device would be disconnected from the rest of your home network.  However Wifi direct devices are just enhanced WiFi clients and if Lionel chooses could also connect to a normal access point.  Then it could be accessed by any device on the home network.  And those devices would still be connected to the internet. This would probably require a two step process where a iPad or some other wifi device would connect to the lionel device to provide a user interface that would allow connection of the lionel device to a regular access point and then the iPad would be reconnected to the regular home network and have access to the lionel device from there.  This also probably requires some higher level protocol like Internet Protocol to work and Lionel may not want to put all of that into their device.

The Wifi LCS module can function as an access point or may join the home network with WPS.   We are not a router, we don't route traffic between a LAN and a WAN - which is the primary goal of a router.

 

 

To do this, the user would need to interface with the LCS wifi module to input SSID and password to grant the LCS wifi module access to your home network.

If you join as a client, that would seem to allow access to the LCS WiFi and other resources on the network, right?

 

Jon:

 

Actually I should have used the term Bridge not route because that is what a WiFi access point does.  So the question is. Is your device a complete WiFi access point that bridges all connected clients so they can talk to each other, or just a WiFi Direct Client that can also be connected to a regular access point?

 

Thanks

Doesn't WPS do that for you automatically?    Not sure as I've never actually used WPS to set up a device

Not if your home wifi network has a hidden SSID.

A wifi network with a hidden SSID does not broadcast its presence.

If the LCS module is connected as a client, you can access it just like any other machine or resource on your WiFi network.  WPS is the handshake to establish the encryption between the client and the AP.


Simple solution, have good encryption and don't hide your SSID!

Exactly, Thanks John.

still need a user interface to enter a password and select which AP to connect to.  There may be multiple APs in the neighborhood that the device can see.

No you don't.  WPS takes care of that requirement.

When are these coming out?

That doesn't sound like it will work with Apple Airport!

If you trust or can turn off the unsecure WPS pin method on the router.  Client devices should still support WPA2 security, and that requires a user interface. 

I was just about to say that, which will be an issue for me, and perhaps many who own iPads, as they would most likely have Apple routers.

 

And I hide my SSID as well as have passwords and MAC address filtering on my home network.  Overkill you may say, perhaps, but experience has dictated setting up this way unfortunately.  And as much as I love my trains, I will not tone it down, even for them.

Hopefully that is an error, WPS is garbage

You can defeat WPS at the router, we can't control that.  If you do not wish to use WPS, then simply use the WiFi module as an access point and connect as needed.

 

The best way to operate is really a dedicated network (Access point mode) for your operating session, as latencies can build up in a home network for many reasons, and you don't want to see a delay in operations of your trains!.   Selecting the WiFi interface you connect with is accomplished in a matter of seconds.  Therefore changing from your Layout WiFi network to your home Network & Vice-Versa is not a problem.

 

 

Jon, when will the LCS module be available?

Bill

Jon,

 

I am not too worried about having the train in the wireless except for creating modules. Is that going to be possible with LCS and the wireless router?

Jon, if you connect it as an WAP, is that a wired connection to your existing router?  In that case, it's just another wireless node that you can connect to with one or more devices, right?  I use a couple of routers as dumb access points, they can have full WPA2 encryption with individual keys, and provide seamless connections throughout my network.

 

I guess I'm not seeing what the big flap is.

The pictures provided for the LCS WiFi module show no ethernet port, therefore this module cannot be cabled to an existing network. When configured as a WAP the module will be creating its own WiFi network independent of any existing home WiFi network.

I'm getting very confused as to why anyone should think it important that you can connect your iPad to any other device apart from the Legacy Wi-Fi system AT THE SAME TIME!

Surely you are making this connection to control your trains, not to be busy updating your social media pages while your unattended trains are busy crashing?

 

When the Wi-Fi module is available, I for one will be using it with my iPad so as to have a dedicated connection to a control panel for my yard that is easy to configure and use.  With the LCS software, I can build one in minutes rather than have to build a physical panel that cannot easily be changed or moved.  

I don't expect to be using my iPad to run my trains though, as the CAB-2 controller is much better suited to that. In my opinion, if you want to do everything from a computer screen, then why bother having a real layout at all? Why not just run one of the RR simulator programs instead?  

Nicole, I understand and agree up to a point.  It's not while you are running the trains, it's remembering to disable/switch back to your main net when you are done playing with trains.

Because of the promise of it also coming to out phones.  Many of use use our tablets as control devices for many things at once.  I can control my Roku and Blu-Ray player with my tablet, doing a quick switch between them.  I can even control my computer with it at the same time.  All of these other devices connect to my existing home network which is the best way to do it as I configure things once, and they talk to each other from that time out.  If the Lionel WiFi unit doesn't connect to my home network without me having to reconfigure everything else on the network as well as the network itself, I will most likely pass on it, as will most tech savvy people.  Having to take the time to change the network one's device is connected to for working on the trains will be a pain, as now my device won't get my emails, or allow me to quickly switch to my music playing to make adjustments, or to stop the alarming Nest Protect that's going off because I have my locomotive's smoke too high.

The fully connected home is coming, and if Lionel configures their Legacy WiFi device correctly to fit in, then they will be ahead of the game and I'll be able to have my hobby along with my media and other devices right at my finger tips.

This might be a silly question but will the LCS wifi module work stand alone?

i.e. With no internet. Just allowing the IPad to talk to Legacy.

Our layout is in a outbuilding out of wifi router range.

 

Nick

This might be a silly question but will the LCS wifi module work stand alone?

i.e. With no internet. Just allowing the IPad to talk to Legacy.

Our layout is in a outbuilding out of wifi router range.

 

I THINK that's what I saw in Ohio at the open house.

Absolutely. That is what the modules's wireless access point (WAP) mode is designed for.

I think you could make the lcs wifi your preferred connection. When you power down the layout lcs wifi would shut down and your device would then connect to its next preferred network, the one that has internet.