LED HEADLIGHT???

I use LED's from christmas lights that I purchase after Christmas.  I have a 1K resister on the (+) side of the LED and just wire them in a the front and rear light locations on the DC commander. If the lights do not work I switch the wire leds.

I non-TMCC engines I add a AC to DC bridge.

 Here's the rear headlight on a switch engine had has a Christmas LED. Sorry not a good picture. I have Christmas LED's in my buildings, engines and passerager cars.

If you have a cheap LED try it.   All it can do it burn out.   

Remember LEDS are Diodes (Light Emitting Diodes), so polarity is important.   The plus lead on the LED must be connected to the plus side DC current and the negative to the negative side.   If connected backwards, it just will not run.

If you don't want to potentially sacrifice an LED, try it with a 1K resistor in series.  I have put the resistor on either lead.   If it does not light even when you reverse the polarity try a 500 ohm resistor.   I would also try 150 ohm resistor.   I have an SS Gas-electric with LED lights from the factory, and it wanted a 150ohm resistor.   Anything bigger and it did not light.   If  it still does not light, wire it without a resistor.    Chances are if it will not light with one like that - it must be set up with a resistor in the driving circuit.   I use Radio Shack 1/2 watt because they are readily available and I don't need many.  

If you are using an ERR board and 3.2 volt white LEDs, you still need a 1000 ohm resister in series with each LED. On older boards an additional "load" resistor was required to keep the LED lit.

The Cl2-N3 chip takes the place of the resistor and provides constant voltage lighting. No calculations are needed. It in effect acts as a variable resistor maintaining a safe 20 ma current flow regardless of input voltage. You can also use a resistor but it will not be constant voltage lighting if run conventional. This is for wiring off the track voltage. 

Not sure of the ERR board requirements and circuit,it may have a circuit which drives an LED but if inserting the CL2-N3 chip it would still work.    

Dale H

If you have a cheap LED try it.

I think that's what I'm going to do.  What I initially had was a LED and a resistor in series, but no diode.  I was having some issues with it but it could have been anything.

I'll give this a try and let ya'll know.

Bob

Do you have a link to the Err instruction book?

Dale H

Here ya go Dale:

http://www.electricrr.com/Manuals/CruiseCmdr-Inst.pdf

WHAT?!?!?!  Now the manual doesn't say anything about it   I copied that blurb straight from a manual online yesterday when I posted here.

I must be going crazy.  I just looked at the printed version I have AND the downloaded version I printed from and neither of them has this blurb.  I'll have to recall what I typed in when I did a Google search to see if I can re-locate which manual I got that out of.

Found the culprit, here's the ERR page that tells about the Cruise Commander (under Products):

http://www.electricrr.com/CruiseCommander.htm

Here's what I typed in for my initial Google search and found that page:

err cruise commander led headlight circuit in command

But in the manual it doesn't mention the headlights.  So which is correct, the Product page or the manual?

Bob

Their schematic does not match their verbal description. It shows 2 light bulbs hooked to it and does not give voltage output,at least I do not see it.

ask someone at ERR or measure yourself what the output voltage is,AC or DC on terminals 4,5,and 6,then you can formulate a circuit for an LED. Mt guess is it is 12VDC,regulated 

Dale H

The "complex load wiring" comment is just a reference to the fact that for the bare R2LC output you need a resistor or incandescent bulb on the lighting outputs to allow the light triac to fire.  So, the "complex load wiring" was just a 560 ohm resistor across the light output in parallel with your LED lighting components.  The Cruise Commander has that resistor on-board.

Oh, and the voltage coming from the lighting circuits is 12V negative in respect to circuit ground.  Also, in certain cases, I believe you get AC out of the lighting outputs, that would be conventional mode.  That's the reason you need diode protection for LED lighting.

John

Do you know the voltage output?

Dale H

Dale, see my previous edit, I forgot to include that.

You also need 2, 560 ohm resistors in parallel,for front and rear to trigger the Triac? as well as a ballast resistor in series (470 ohm)?

Dale H

Correct, the parallel resistors just simulate an incandescent bulb and allow the triac to reliably trigger.  Without them, the bare R2LC with LED lights will either simply not work or the headlights will flicker a lot with random triggering of the triac.

I've used 1K resistors, but I find they're marginal at times, so I have dropped to the 560 ohm ones.  Oh, and they should be 1/2W resistors, forgot to mention that as well.

The ERR Cruise Commander (or AC and DC Commander) should already have those resistors and so you don't need them in that environment.  However, for plain TMCC installations, the resistors are required.

Thanks John

A 560 ohm would use a bit over 1/4 watt. 

If you have the ability to post a drawing,maybe you could draw something for Bob. He may be a bit confused where to put everything by description. Not sure which board he has and if the 560 ohm resistor is needed.

Dale

Here you go.

He says the ERR Cruise Commander, so the 560 ohm resistor should not be required for this application.

Dale and John,

I haven't read any of your posts after my last one yet, but thought I'd throw this out,

I measured the voltage (Radio Shack voltmeter) on terminal pins 4 and 6 and I'm getting 18 volts.  That tells me it's just track voltage and nothing in between.

For giggles, I did stick a 5mm LED in and saw it light, then nothing, I'm sure the 18 volts zapped it.

I'll go back and read your comments.

In command mode, it's not 18 volts, it's nominally 12 volts, though it usually runs a big less.  I size my resistors for 12 volts, and the LED's are still living.  Connecting an LED directly across the headlight output or the tracks will kill is in milliseconds, you MUST have current limiting if you're not right at the LED operating voltage.

The diagram above is how lights in a number of locomotives are wired, they work fine.

John,

I wonder if I have a problem with my ERR CC board?  I'll check the voltage again but I'm sure it read 18 volts.

No load voltage readings are not reliable.  We've had this discussion when people are reading 50 volts from train transformers and the like.

If the headlight triac is shorted, that could be a problem.  If you can control the headlight with the remote, you're not getting 18 volts.

I checked the voltage again, placed the engine on the track and turn on the layout.  Selected the engine and pressed START UP.  When I measure the voltage it was actually 18.5 volts.  I SHUT DOWN the engine and the 18.5 volts is still on the terminals (4 and 6).  The CC version I have is 4.1.

Right now I have nothing connected to the terminals (no headlight in the circuit).

Connect a 12V bulb to the terminals and measure it again, using the DC scale.

I've installed about a dozen Cruise Commanders, so I'm pretty sure that my advice is correct for this particular case.

Are you measuring AC or DC?  Note that it's half-wave DC on the light outputs, positive ground.  In conventional mode with no TMCC signal, you'll get actual track voltage on those outputs.

Connected the 12 volt bulb and read 8 volts DC.

Yep, sounds about right.  I assume 12VDC, but it's actually less, it's basically the track voltage rectified half-wave.  OTOH, the LED's will run on a fraction of the maximum power, and the brightness isn't affected that much.

BTW Bob, the blurb you read about LED's and the Cruise Commander was probably in the Cruise Commander M manual, that's a totally different product.  It does have some direct LED outputs for markers and ditch lights.

The 1N4001 will work fine, I just use the ones I specified because they're universal ones that I can use in many places.  The 1N4001 has a peak reverse voltage of 50V, sufficient for this application.

Thanks guys, got it working!  I had to put 2 resistors in series to get the 470 ohm rating (out of the huge pile of resistors I have, none of them were 470 ohms) and I used the 1N5406 (the 4001 had a very short leg on one end).

Sounds good, the next one is even easier, you're a pro now.

I think what had me baffled was the blurb on the ERR site, maybe they need to do a little housekeeping?!?!?!

While the products are fine, the documentation could use a little work.  Stuff like the fact that the lighting circuits are positive ground and the voltages should be in the manual.  The one issue with a lot of this stuff is it's all folklore, there is no real documentation from the manufacturers on the internal details in many cases.

John, On your diagram is frame ground terminal 6 on the ERR Board?  G

Yep, there are a couple of "ground" terminals on the Cruise Commander.  Both of the "common" terminals on the left are frame ground, and are connected to the AC Common on the right side, which connects to the wheels/frame.

Now that I have the headlight under control, I need to find a sound card for the E7.  Any places selling these at a discount?

I really like the speed range my WBB E7 has now that the ERR Cruise Commander is running in Command Mode.  Changing from 32 speed steps to 128 speed steps is a breeze on the DCS handheld (can this be changed while the engine is moving?).

Changing to 128 speed steps must be tricky, the CC only has 32 and 100 speed steps!

Do you have a sound system now, or do you just have the Cruise Commander?  You'll need the motherboard and power supply or the ERR RailSounds Commander if you have nothing now.  You can buy the RS Commander with a few diesel generic sounds, and you can get many different diesel boards from Lionel.  I hesitate to suggest they'll be at a "discount".

Lionel RailSounds 4.0 Board Listing

John,

I know, but on the DCS handheld it shows 128 and 32 when you press the SPD button.  Thinking back to my binary days, 132 makes sense, 100 does not.

Oh, if you're running in 100/128 mode and change over to 32, AND then move the thumbwheel (either direction)...your engine will take off like a rocket

All I have installed now is the CC kit, I had the MRC AC Sounder in but it was basically a stand alone board, not hooked up to the CC board at all other than that's where I was pulling power from (AC Hot and Common).

All I think I need is the Railsounds 4 board for an E7.

I'm not sure why ERR picked 100 steps, or Lionel picked 200 for Legacy, but they did.

You'll need the whole kit, not just the RailSounds board.  The RailSounds Commander is the power supply and the RailSounds audio board in a compact package.  There is no place to plug the RailSounds audio board on your Cruise Commander.

There is no place to plug the RailSounds audio board on your Cruise Commander

John,

Not sure I follow you.  Look at the CC sound board diagram you posted, there's a plug for a sound card.

Bob, that is the RailSounds command connection, but the RailSounds card does not stand alone, it must have a power supply card as well.

Here is the RailSounds Commander pieces, this is the product that was specifically made to interface with the ERR TMCC products.

On the left is the RailSounds audio board, on the right is the motherboard/power supply module that supports the audio board.  All the connections to the outside world are made on the board on the right.

You'll just have to trust me on this one, you need more than just a RailSounds audio board to have sound.

John, so aside from needing a TMCC engine, that railsound commander is all inclusive for sound and control- right? I like how lionel shows those boards on they're site.