LED light kit comparison

Johns board has an adjustment pot so you can adjust brightness with a small flat blade screwdriver.

My thought is that if you are making the conversion, go with a "constant" light kit (meaning flicker free), adjustable so you can set the brightness to your liking, and add people to the cars while its open. Go all out 1 time, and they are done.

IMO that's an apples-orange comparision.  GRJ's kit converts AC track voltage to smooth, adjustable DC to drive the LEDs.  In addition to the rail-gap flicker that you mention, continuous DC eliminates the flicker from pulsing the LEDs with AC. 

So with the direct AC method, even if the car is motion-less on a clean section of track, the LEDs flash/flicker on and off 60 (30 edit) times per second or on every other half of the alternating 60 Hz track voltage.  Many guys say they can't see it or it doesn't bother them or whatever.  Likewise, some are/aren't bothered by fluorescent lighting flicker vs. smoother incandescent bulbs.  To each his own.

While I am ignorant of the electronics involved, grj's module/power supply also includes a choke to make the LED conversion compatible with DCS.  No such choke is included with the resistor/LED light strip offered by LBR/Custom O Decals.  The choke is cheap so it could be added for DCS operation, if required.

EDIT:  As explained below by stan2004, the choke is not needed for the AC power used by the LBR/Custom O Decal strips.

For the AC-method as implemented, you don't need a choke for DCS operation.  You could nevertheless install one with benign effect.

For the DC-method as implemented, the choke is needed for DCS operation. The choke demotes the effect of the capacitor which degrades the DCS command signal.

stan2004, thanks for the clarification on the use of the choke.  I've edited my earlier reply accordingly.

What are the lengths for the 2 and what are the prices for the 2?

To get technical Stan, the flicker from AC power is 60hz as each half-wave of the 60HZ power will light the strip.  I can't see it, but I know a number of people that it drives nuts, so obviously some folks can see it.

My kit has a long enough LED strip to go end to end, even in 21" cars, so you don't have any dark spots at the ends.  The actual strip is 19" long.

If you're willing to do a little soldering, you can buy the LED rolls for $4-5 for a five meter roll and just use two of the lighting regulators to power them.  This will save you bucks over using the full kit. 

I looked at the other thread which I assume is this:

https://ogrforum.com/t...-o-decals-led-strips

Here are 3 additional differences more to do with assembly/installation than the "electronic" differences of AC vs. DC

1. Soldering.  As I recall when GRJ's board were designed, one consideration was for a no-soldering-required installation.  The "kit" version of his boards allows this.  As shown in the other thread, soldering was used.

2. Connectors.  GRJ's kits come with connectors so that you can separate the shell from the chassis.  From what I can tell in the other thread, the shell and chassis are permanently tethered by whatever the length of wiring supplied.  I suppose it's arguable that one would never have to open the passenger car again with long-life LEDs but it is nevertheless a difference.  For example, if you later choose to go back to detail the interior, add additional LEDs for markers, vestibules, etc. then there is a benefit to completely separating the chassis from the shell.

3. GRJ's kits appear to use fatter wire gauge and what appears to be stranded wiring (?).  The bare AC-strips appear to use very thin gauge "magnet" wire which is solid enamel coated wire.  The thin magnet wire is probably easier to disguise or hide but from my experience it can be difficult to work with if you need to attach connectors, make splices, whatever.  That's just my opinion of course.

And as alluded to in 2, if you indeed go back in to add LEDs for more than basic interior lighting, it's much easier to start with the regulated DC provided by GRJ's board than with "raw" AC track voltage.  Again, that's my opinion.

Gosh.  You'd think I was a paid shill for GRJ's boards!   Not!  Never met the guy!

I'd also give the nod to GRJ in this case.  Stan has listed quit a few good reasons, but I have some others that I think carry weight.  

First, The custom O light strips will do the job, and are not a bad choice.  If cost were the only concern, they would win out based on doing 5 cars for the price of 2.  Chris Lonero ( edited as I was confused and put the wrong person) reported recently that the light strips seemed good and did the job to satisfaction, and if that is the goal, the Custom O strips will do the job.  

In life, I've found that with most things, you can pay someone to do the work, or you can learn to do it your self, and I think if just the cost savings is your goal, making your own light strips can be done for much less than the retail of either named product.  This actually gives a point to GRJ for me, as there are countless threads, going many years, where he tells folks exactly how to make their own strips and power boards.  This, to my way of thinking, should be a consideration even to those that are fundamentally opposed to  even paint-by-number electronics.    

If cost savings is the only goal, you can order parts from china, and put it together your self.  Somewhere around $3-$5 per car I would guess, depending how many you need.  If ease of installation is your goal, the kit from GRJ is the way to go at about $17.50 per car.  Everything else is somewhere in between... or over priced.  

For the person that has done little if any soldering of electrical wiring ( or others that have but have forgotten) on model trains here is a hint that is very inexpensive and will save a lot of grief when reassembling the unit they are working on.COAT ALL SOLDER JOINTS WITH CLEAR FINGER NAIL POLISH WHEN YOU HAVE COMPLETED THE WIRING JOB. Most times the polish can be purchased for around $1.50 per bottle or less. This simple and cost effective application will assure that all solder joints will not short out when coming into contact with another wire or grounding metals.

Dave, LBR 

If you want to insulate them, a much better solution is Liquid Tape.  Nail Polish will flake off if you bump it.  It's available in a lot of places, I got it at Home Depot.

You are correct if you are talking about the old enamel polishes. The new lacquer polishes are very pliable and none corrosive. A very, very affordable and easily obtained product that most modelers wives would loan them if asked.

Dave, LBR  

After finding Liquid Tape, I stopped looking for a paint-on insulator.  LT is a great product for all sort of customization.  It's super for blocking the back-scatter from LED's when you install them in a shell as well.

Thanks everyone for your great inputs; even those on the off topic Liquid Tape.  May have to try a lacquer polish.

After reading several other topics as well as the comments above, I think John's lighting regulators looks like my best bet for putting LEDs into my passenger cars.  I like the flexibility of John's regulators.  Plus I like the idea of getting my own LED roles so I can tailor the light to the specific era car; warm white for the heavyweights and bright white for the streamliners.  Now I need to figure out what type of LED roles to get.

Ron, allow me to offer what may be a word of caution.  grj's modules are excellent.  My concern is with mounting them in cars with interiors and finding space for them given the wide variety among manufacturers for installing interiors.

My experience with modules like those offered by grj is pretty limited to LIONEL PW style 2500 aluminum cars (a/k/a "silhouette" cars) that LIONEL produced at least into the early '90's.  However, I've since acquired newer LIONEL cars with interiors and incandescent lighting, and finding a satisfactory location for the module is problematic, though not insurmountable.

Having no experience with GGD, MTH, or K-Line scale size cars prevents me from offering more than a simple word of caution--locating a module may prove to be problematic. 

Good luck with your conversions and please post photos of your process. 

grj, Liquid Tape is like the old "Brylcreem" advertisement:  "A little dab will do ya."

I've been using the same bottle of LT for months, I think it'll dry out before I use it all.  I typically replace it about once a year.

I've probably done about 75-80 cars of various sizes and brands.  I find that a good place in many is on the ceiling.  You have plenty of clearance and it's out if sight unless you get right down at the window and look up.  I bend the tab of the regulator down to minimize the clearance.

Does this mean bending just the metal tab of the regulator, or the entire regulator itself? 

If the former, how do you do this without cracking the case?  If the latter, I find the 3-legs of the supplied part are too short to make the right-angle bend to fold the entire regulator flat.  Of course my soldering iron is always hot and I have bags of LM317T so I just install a new LM317T but inquiring minds want to know...

I just fold the tab on the regulator.  The ones I use have a pretty thin tab and it folds pretty easily.  I fold it away from the back, not over the regulator.  I also clamp with pliers right at the top to get a clean bend.  Other brands of LM317T regulators have a thicker tab that you probably couldn't bend, those you can just fire up the Dremel and cut off.

I agree on the legs, it was a compromise between it being even taller and having the lowest profile.  If I could have fit a surface mount part on the same board size I would have, but it had to go on the back side.  That doubled the assembly cost as they had to run the boards twice through the soldering pass, that's why the single-sided design. 

Also, the free-air package dissipates heat better than the smaller SMT package.  I was shooting for the best performance over a wide range of operating conditions.  If you have 20 volts dropped across the regulator, that might happen if you are running a couple of parallel LED's at the maximum of around 45ma through the module, the power dissipation of the regulator is 0.8 watts.  That isn't a big deal for the regulator I use and it never got past around 75C in my testing.