Legacy American Freedom Train GS4 - 10/3 test track VIDEO

Laidoffsick posted:

Legacy AFT and Daylight vs the TMCC GS2

It would be interesting to hear how the earlier Legacy GS-4 sound compares to the new GS-4.

Also, it would be nice to see how the colors of the earlier Legacy GS-4 compare. It appears that the new Legacy GS-4 colors are slightly lighter than the GS-2, at least the orange color. I have a set of the Lionel aluminum passenger cars that were made for the GS-2 - and I think they matched the color of the earlier Legacy GS-4 as well. It would be interesting to see how they would look with this new GS-4.

breezinup posted:

...

It would be interesting to hear how the earlier Legacy GS-4 sound compares to the new GS-4.

...

If I recall correctly from youtube videos I listened to recently, the earlier Legacy GS-4 has more of a steamboat whistle, whereas the newer GS-4 has a whistle similar to the Santa Fe #3751 locomotive Lione produced a few years ago.  Unless you're a real stickler for details, this isn't a show-stopper for me.

As for other differences, the crewtalk/towercom of the earlier GS-4 calls out the loco with it's roadname/roadnumber.  Whereas the newer model has the dumbed-down dialog.  Only VisionLine locos get roadnumber-specific dialog now.  Prices go up... features go down or "the little things" get cut.  

David

Sorry I didn't buy the earlier Legacy version of the GS4 because 4449 wasn't offered. It does sound better with it's steam boat style whistle, much like the Sunset version. Can't give you a sound comparison of the earlier Legacy GS4. I could compare the MTH and Sunset whistle but I already know they sound better and would have to take them over to the layout.

Yes, the color on the new Legacy is lighter than the TMCC GS2...for sure. Again, I don't have the older Legacy version so someone else will have to make those comparisons. We do already know there is also 2 different colors of Lionel passenger cars, so which one matches the new Legacy model? and hopefully the new 21" cars match the new GS4

People wanted to see it... I showed it. People wanted to hear it... I showed that too. I'm happy with my purchases, and I may swap Sound cards with my Sunset just for fun. Maybe not.

On a side note: When I opened both versions of my GS4's the volume knob in the tender was turned way down. When I ran them, neither one had much VOLUME in the sound. I thought something was wrong, because they were very quiet. So if you're lacking in sound volume department after you take it out of the box, check the volume control in the tender hatch.

The first Legacy GS-4 6-11127 has the same whistle tone the REAL 4449 was wear at the time of the model offering.

Hotwater stated at some point the whistle was changed. 

Regardless the whistle is/was uniquely recognizable as SP4449, no other Lionel offering sounds like it

Heres the first run 6-11127 legacy GS-4 from 2008: 

Heres SP4449 wearing the whistle Lionel put on the first legacy offering:

( Actually, come to think of it. The lack of Hotwaters voice on the crewtalk is a bigger problem than the whistle)

It seems Lionel has been getting a bit "cookie- cutterish" with some of the sounds these days....

It works for MTH I guess

RickO posted:

The first Legacy GS-4 6-11127 has the same whistle tone the REAL 4449 was wear at the time of the model offering.

I have one of those, and in spite of the main rod being incorrect, it still is a GREAT sound model, with the pretty correct SP GS Class whistle. Which, by the way, is the same "sound chip" in the Sunset/3rd Rail GS-4 with ERR TMCC control.

Hotwater stated at some point the whistle was changed. 

Yes, but the whistle "type" was STILL the Hancock "deep steamboat" type.

Regardless the whistle is/was uniquely recognizable as SP4449, no other Lionel offering sounds like it

Heres the first run 6-11127 legacy GS-4 from 2008: 

 

Heres SP4449 wearing the whistle Lionel put on the first legacy offering:

 

( Actually, come to think of it. The lack of Hotwaters voice on the crewtalk is a bigger problem than the whistle)

 

It seems Lionel has been getting a bit "cookie- cutterish" with some of the sounds these days....

Sure seems that way, doesn't it?  Wouldn't it be nice if the folks at Lionel actually asked someone knowledgable about what whistle goes with what locomotive?

It works for MTH I guess

 

Laidoffsick posted:

Yes, the color on the new Legacy is lighter than the TMCC GS2...for sure. Again, I don't have the older Legacy version so someone else will have to make those comparisons. We do already know there is also 2 different colors of Lionel passenger cars, so which one matches the new Legacy model? and hopefully the new 21" cars match the new GS4

 

By "2 different colors of Lionel passenger cars" I assume you're referring to the (1) Daylight streamlined aluminum 18" cars that came out at the same time as the TMCC GS-2 (and I think the heavyweights that came out at the same time as the first Legacy GS-4 are the same color), and (2) the Shasta Daylight 18" streamlined aluminum cars. I think it has been pretty well established that the Shasta cars have incorrect colors  (they matched diesels that came out in the same catalog).

Looking at all the photos and video I could find, it appears that the first Legacy GS-4 has paint which is pretty much the same as the TMCC GS-2, which means it too has a darker shade of orange paint than the new Legacy GS-4. I think the Legacy GS-2s (introduced after the first Legacy GS-4) also had the same paint, so the new Legacy GS-4 seems to be the odd ball in the group, colorwise.

If this is true, the earlier aluminum streamlined (non-Shasta) cars won't be an exact match for the new Legacy GS-4. Presumably the new 21" cars will match the new engine, but it will be interesting to see if they actually do. Hopefully they will, as you mentioned, although that won't help people who have earlier engine versions who want the new 21" cars (and the earlier 18" cars are pretty scarce). Personally, the 21" cars are too big for my use, and I already have the 18" set, so the fact that the new GS-4 has a different paint shade is somewhat disappointing. I was waiting for this engine - now it looks like an earlier engine version will be in the cards.

Shouldn't this open the other way?????

Laidoffsick posted:

Shouldn't this open the other way?????

Absolutely, YES! Wonder how/why the screwed THAT up?

The Daylight is the same way

I think it might need a recall somehow. 

Laidoffsick posted:

The Daylight is the same way

Beautiful!

Maybe I should double check my "older" Legacy GS-4 model, i.e. the one with the incorrect main rods, but the correct whistle.

Looks like my 2008 GS4 is correct.

That's not a mistake,,,, Its a ?????? up. One more reason not to preorder.  

Laidoffsick posted:

Shouldn't this open the other way????? ...

Perhaps the Chinese borrowed some tooling/concepts from the cab-forward??? 

Ya never know.....  

David

Laidoffsick posted:

Shouldn't this open the other way?????

Arrrrrgh Lionel!

Part of me wants to say, "Leave it closed," and the other part of me wants to say, "Stop preordering Lionel steam." 

Inexcusable.

Laidoffsick posted:

Shouldn't this open the other way?????

An air scoop. Pulls in lots of good exhaust smoke, too.   

I'll just leave it closed. I found it by accident as I bumped the cab with my arm and it popped open. 

Like I said, I think the new GS-4 needs to be recalled.  I think Lionel should do is provide cabs as replacement parts with the corrected front roof hatches.  If this were to happen in real life, the roof hatch would break off at high speeds.

Peter Araujo posted:

Like I said, I think the new GS-4 needs to be recalled.  I think Lionel should do is provide cabs as replacement parts with the corrected front roof hatches.

Agreed.

 If this were to happen in real life, the roof hatch would break off at high speeds.

Obviously you are not familiar with how those roof hatches are constructed. It would not "break off at high speeds". However, the point is, those roof hatches are designed to help evacuate the heat from the cab on hot days. They are NOT designed to "scoop/force" air into the cab.

here's the email response I got from the manufacturer about the sound set and the cab vent:

Doug, 

Thank you for your email. I did consult with the production team with your concerns. 

The 4449 has used several different whistles during its excursion career. This whistle file was chosen because it sounded closest to what he have heard in several recordings and to meet our customers concerns about all of the locomotives sounding the same. 

Regarding the cab vent,  it is the same in the whole production run. We will not have any replacements or fixes available. 

You do have the option to take it to your dealer for a refund if you choose. 

Thank you,

Laidoffsick posted:

here's the email response I got from the manufacturer about the sound set and the cab vent:

Doug, 

Thank you for your email. I did consult with the production team with your concerns. 

The 4449 has used several different whistles during its excursion career. This whistle file was chosen because it sounded closest to what he have heard in several recordings and to meet our customers concerns about all of the locomotives sounding the same. 

Regarding the cab vent,  it is the same in the whole production run. We will not have any replacements or fixes available. 

You do have the option to take it to your dealer for a refund if you choose. 

Thank you,

 

 

Im sure the dealers will appreciate this response from lionel 

Laidoffsick posted:

here's the email response I got from the manufacturer about the sound set and the cab vent:

Doug, 

Thank you for your email. I did consult with the production team with your concerns. 

Sure he/she did!?!

The 4449 has used several different whistles during its excursion career.

True, but,,,,,,,,,,the Engineer's whistle has ALWAYS been a Hancock, three chime, deep steamboat type.

This whistle file was chosen because it sounded closest to what he have heard in several recordings and to meet our customers concerns about all of the locomotives sounding the same. 

Obviously they have NOT been listening to the CORRECT recordings of 4449!

Regarding the cab vent,  it is the same in the whole production run. We will not have any replacements or fixes available. 

Well, thanks for THAT.

You do have the option to take it to your dealer for a refund if you choose. 

So now it's screw the dealer time.

Thank you,

 

 

Often times Lionel seems to be like a football team that can get into the red zone but not get into the end zone.  That's frustrating!  This engine could have been great.  It would have been easy...use the previous GS-4 whistle and the old cabs with the correct hatch, the new Legacy sound set with the extra background noises, the new correct side rods and the new paint....touch down!  I am tired of settling for 3.

Good thing the real vent was the right way Jack, you would of needed a respirator and goggles to ride in the cab.

It's mind boggling how Lionel can release a product with errors that weren't there on the previous runs.

The 2-8-0s with the builders plates on the bottom of the smokebox were  rediculous . These were correct on the tmcc versions.

The GP30's with the misaligned rear steps were one of the worst mistakes that had not occurred on several previous releases of the GP30.

I'm not doing cartwheels over the spoked drivers that should have been boxpoks on my ESE Hudson either.

I'm sure there are many others I'm not thinking of.

Maybe someone should inspect the first few locos before punching out a thousand and saying, meh....that's good enough.

An error is one thing. Screwing up a model when it was previously done correctly is inexcusable.

Pre order no more!

Maybe BTO really means "Botch To Order".

Thankfully, I have my 3rd Rail GS-4s to enjoy.

I guess the only way to get the roof hatch correct is to kit bash it.

LOL Bob!

 On Rudolph, that train pulling the caboose with square wheels on the island of misfit toys must have been a Lionel.

Peter Araujo posted:

I guess the only way to get the roof hatch correct is to kit bash it.

If the incorrect roof hatch on the model is not a brass piece, modifying or "kit bashing" it will not be easy.

Hot Water posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

I guess the only way to get the roof hatch correct is to kit bash it.

If the incorrect roof hatch on the model is not a brass piece, modifying or "kit bashing" it will not be easy.

As HW indicated this may not be an easy fix. If it was mine I'd glue that hatch closed.

I think the whole roof hatch assembly is separately applied, so it might need a screw driver to disassemble it, and flip it around.  As you look at 7:51 of Eric's review of the Pilot GS-6, the whole assembly is made of brass.  Don't know if it's possible, but it's my guess.

Overall, I think the new GS-4s are beautiful.  They got the black wheels & black numberboards like in the catalog, and the Daylight logos are facing the correct way on the skirts.  I like how the airhorn is quilable because I find it interesting in a way.  Not super happy about the whistle and the color of the drive rods.  I'd suggest that Lionel should have dark drive rods on freight locomotives, and light drive rods like before on the passenger locomotives.

Was my post helpful in a way?

Maybe Lionel is ahead of the curve on some new EPA regs for excursion steam. That could actually be an exhaust gas recirculating vent. Just keep the firebox doors open and have the crew don some scuba gear. Steam goes green.

Peter Araujo posted:

Was my post helpful in a way?

Well Peter Lionel says there is no fix for it so I'm guessing that hatch is soldered in there. Maybe glue/epoxy, but it's not coming out

I'm no longer interested in the new GS-4, because I don't think the new colors will match my earlier passenger cars, but for those who have one, there are far worse things that could have happened than a vent that opens the wrong way. Keeping the vent closed is not a bad thing to live with, given how nice the rest of the engine is, so anguish is unwarranted, IMHO.

Changing the colors - now that's what's irritated me, and it's a problem that can't be overcome. After two previous runs of GS-2s and one of the GS-4, why did they change the paint now? Ugh!

Laidoffsick posted:

<<snip>>

You do have the option to take it to your dealer for a refund if you choose. 

Thank you,

 

 

Real nice Lionel.  Don't take responsibility.  Let the dealer get bit.

T4TT posted:

Often times Lionel seems to be like a football team that can get into the red zone but not get into the end zone.  That's frustrating!  This engine could have been great.  It would have been easy...use the previous GS-4 whistle and the old cabs with the correct hatch, the new Legacy sound set with the extra background noises, the new correct side rods and the new paint....touch down!  I am tired of settling for 3.

Ah Lionel has become the Cleveland Browns

Orange and Blue now Orange and Brown 

I think it's best to get the cab off first, and then reverse the roof hatch.

breezinup posted:

I'm no longer interested in the new GS-4, because I don't think the new colors will match my earlier passenger cars, but for those who have one, there are far worse things that could have happened than a vent that opens the wrong way. Keeping the vent closed is not a bad thing to live with, given how nice the rest of the engine is, so anguish is unwarranted, IMHO.

Changing the colors - now that's what's irritated me, and it's a problem that can't be overcome. After two previous runs of GS-2s and one of the GS-4, why did they change the paint now? Ugh!

I think they changed the colors to match the upcoming passenger cars. If that's not a match, this thread will certainly get resurrected!

Well let us see what Lionel will mess up next....

SDIV Tim posted:

Well let us see what Lionel will mess up next....

Let's just hope they don't.