Limited movement or no movement on some of my MTH PS2 Engines

Batteries first.

Even though the sounds are working?

The rumors you say you've heard are false.  I have some engines that have been running PS2 for 17 years, and I have never had a motor go bad.

You didn't mention their age.  The original PS2 locos used an 8.4 volt battery.  They can be identified by either no charging port underneath (under the tender if steam) or by a round charging port.  If you have any of those, do not power them up until you've opened them up and checked the battery.  If it's white, replace it before operating.  Later locos used 2 rechargeable pencells, and are more durable.  They have a rectangular charging port.  If you post the model numbers, someone will certainly tell you which category they are in.

Are you trying to run these using a DCS system, or conventionally?

They range in age from 2005 - 2010.  Some of them have the white charging port & I bought the charger. I think 1 had the round charge port, also have the charger. Some don't have any charger port. Don't know what you mean by DCS system, or conventionally, new at this. I'm using the MTH big black cube transformer & Z1000 controller that has operated many other engines I have just fine.

The DCS system is a digital control system that controls each locomotive individually, without affecting others.  Details can be found on the MTH website.  "Conventionally" means as trains have been for 70 years, the transformer sets voltage to the tracks which controls the speed, and reverse is accomplished by a momentary break in power.  PS2 locos operate either way.

By white, I referred to 8.4-volt battery color, not port color.  The round port or no port indicates the older 8.4 volt system, which is nearing the end of its reliable life.  If you have engines like that, they are older than 2005.

Probably would be best if you listed the engines individually by model number, and then described precisely the problem.  But again, do not power up an engine with a white battery.

It will take me a few days to get detailed model numbers. When you say "nearing the end of its reliable life" I assume you mean the battery? Thank you for your direction!

Would these batteries work in the engines? Same voltage higher mah. 200 vs 120 for MTH versions.

https://www.amazon.com/Tenergy...72HAQH1GECR&th=1

No.  While old batteries are a problem, the old PS2 boards that used 8.4 volt batteries contain components that are failing.

As to the Tenergy batteries, I can't tell if they are 8.4 volt or 7.2 volt.  Rechargeable batteries, despite being called "9 volt" are not.  They are either 8.4 or 7.2.  In addition, several of your engines may use 2 rechargeable pencells, which yielf 2.4 volts.  So until you open each loco up, and are sure what type they use, you won't know how many to get.

On the chance that some of your locos may have failed boards, I would only buy one or two sets of each type, and try each engine.   Someone will probably recommend you buy what are called BCRs or supercapacitors to replace batteries.  But they are expensive and it is better to use a cheaper battery to test engines.

OK Thanks! I will get to checking over the weekend and get back to you.

The Tenergy batteries are fine, they work just dandy in MTH applications.

Oh, the rumor about PS/2 killing motors is total Baloney, that doesn't happen!  I don't often see bad motors, and they happen pretty universally across the brand spectrum.  Sometimes there is a specific motor type that has a higher failure rate, the larger Canon motors in Lionel Legacy steamers come to mind.

Thanks! I'm curious...just for testing purposes can I put a standard Alkaline 9V battery in before I buy the Tenergy batteries? 

Here's the batteries I use: EBL 9V Rechargeable Batteries NiMH, never had a problem, I've probably used 40-50 of these.

Do not leave an alkaline battery in there, it should only be used for bench testing.  I've found dead charging circuits with an alkaline battery in the locomotive, I tend to think the two events may be connected.

Thanks again. Yes I did mean just for bench testing.

mvpfrank posted:

Even though the sounds are working?

Yes.  In PS2, the battery is not needed for sounds to operate when the track is powered.  

When you press the Z-1000 DIRECTION button to place the engine into Forward, do the sounds cut-out immediately?  The battery supplies power for sounds while the DIRECTION button is held down.  If sounds immediately stop, this is a good indicator of an issue with the battery or battery circuit.

A functional battery is also needed to cycle the engine from Neutral to Forward when you press the DIRECTION button.  If sounds immediately cut-out, you will be stuck in neutral.  

An engine can be set to Forward-only by the so-called "Direction Lock" memory setting.  This can be cleared by resetting the engine using a sequence of Bell and Whistle button presses on your Z-1000 controller.  Unfortunately you will need a functional battery for the changed setting to take hold.  So for your engines that are stuck in Forward, if the sounds continue (rather than cutting out) when pressing the DIRECTION button, the battery may be OK.  In this case, try resetting the engine which will clear a locked-in-Forward setting.  The timing of the buttons can be tricky so here's a short video which seems to have helped others.  The controller in the video is not the Z-1000, but the operation is the same.  Note that if stuck in Forward, the engine is rolling down the track as you try this reset; it's best to lower the track voltage so the engine is moving relatively slowly when sending the reset sequence. 

As an aside, it's also possible to "Direction Lock" an engine in Neutral.  So if sounds successfully play through DIRECTION button presses (but engine doesn't cycle thru Neutral-Forward-Neutral-Reverse) the engine could be locked into Neutral.  Try the reset sequence listening for the double-toot confirmation sound from the engine.

I will check the above recommendations and get back to you. Thanks!

OK here's what I found so far. I have an F3 Diesel that all sounds work even while holding direction button but only goes forward. No reversing switch on bottom. And the key reset sequence doesn't seem to change anything. I also have a GP9 that needs a new battery, the 2.4v version, MTH 50-1024 but can't seem to find it anywhere for less than $14 delivered. Any tips there?

To be clear, when you say only goes forward... does this mean when you initially apply power, you get the engine "startup" sound and then after a couple seconds the engine starts moving Forward with speed proportional to throttle?  And while engine stops while DIRECTION button is pressed, when DIRECTION released it immediately returns to Forward (can never get engine to stay in Neutral)?

With the key reset sequence you did hear the double-horn-blast after the last button press?

The battery is just a dual AA rechargeable.  You can buy such a pack on eBay for a couple of dollars but will typically have to swap in the correct connector.  If you don't mind some DIY wiring/assembly and have basic electronic tools you should be able to roll your own for a lot less than $14 by re-using the existing connector.  Though if you have multiple PS2 engines that use that 2.4V battery you might want to swap a known-good battery to see if the problem follows the battery or the engine.

Yes to your questions in paragraph 1. Yes I can also get it to stay in neutral. Did not hear 2 horn blasts after last button press.

If you want to eliminate or replace batteries, check out this thread with Gunrunnerjohn's suggestions for  a supercap for the 3 volt PS2s.

mvpfrank posted:

Yes to your questions in paragraph 1. Yes I can also get it to stay in neutral. Did not hear 2 horn blasts after last button press.

Perhaps I'm getting ahead of myself.  As John H correctly stated early on, batteries first.

But if the batteries are good, you absolutely need to be able to get the 2 horn blasts.  Try it again.  Try it a dozen times!  It helps to lower the throttle to slow or even stop the engine (as long as the sounds are operating).  

By getting it to "stay in neutral" was this by lowering the throttle?  You can tell if you are locked in Forward if every time you press the DIRECTION button the engine momentarily slow/stops but then immediately starts running in Forward as soon as you release the button.

The battery seems to be fine. Sounds will work with Direction button held down. The neutral status is done by the direction switch not turning the dial down. Finally got the 2 horn blasts. Now as you mentioned above each time I hit direction it stops and then moves forward each time. Still no reverse. Thanks on the Super Cap but I will stick to batteries for now.

So engine is cycling between fwd and neutral with each direction button press.  Does the engine have directional headlights that indicate it "thinks" it's in reverse?

If you listen to the chassis can you hear a faint relay click when you first apply power (before sounds start)?

And you may need to turn volume down but can you hear the same faint relay click on every 2nd direction button press? It's rare but a defective relay can keep engine in fwd only.

I apologize for the delay getting back to you. I'm going to throw you a little curve ball. Note the 2 attached photos. I have 2 F3 engines, one older than the other. The older one looks like it had the cap mod eliminating the battery & the newer one has the 2.8v battery. BOTH of them are doing the same exact thing. Both go in forward only & most of the time when I hit the direction button they DON'T go into neutral but rather just recycle and go forward again. Both of them when I hold the direction button the sounds stop so I will be replacing the battery but how about the cap? My question is after replacing the battery in theory will the newer one also go in reverse? What do I do with the older one with the cap mod?  

The engine on the left is not a PS2 engine.  I believe that's what MTH called LocoSound which did not use a battery.  I don't have any LocoSound engines so can't help you with the locked-in-forward issue.

As for the PS2 engine on the right, if the sounds cut-out as soon as you press the DIRECTION button, then it's almost surely a battery issue.  If you have another PS2 engine that has either a dual-AA or dual-AAA battery I'd swap the battery to see if the locked-in-forward problem follows the engine or the battery.  A PS2 engine that is locked in forward (requiring the Bell-Whistle button reset procedure) will upon application of power behave as follows: faint relay click coming from the circuit board, then engine sounds start for a few seconds, then engine starts moving fwd proportional to throttle.  You need to solve the battery issue first.  That is, even if you successfully reset the engine (to take it out of Fwd lock), you need the battery to "save" the reset as well as to cycle the engine thru the Fwd-neutral-Rev-neutral sequence when you press the Direction button.

Thanks Stan. I've got a battery on the way in for another engine so I will try it in this one first. I will let you know how that works out later this week. 

Some transformers are problematic in reversing directions, have you tried a different transformer?  I'm presuming you're running in conventional from the conversations.

Yes I'm conventional. I haven't tried a different transformer because most of my other engines work perfectly with the same setup.

You know that and I know that, but apparently some of your locomotives don't know that.

Another trick is to plop a lighted passenger car or two on the track (obviously with incandescent lighting) to draw a little current and then see if they reverse properly.

Thanks! OK I will try that later this week.

Read the instructions for the engines.  The lock out procedure is the same.  So the locosound may just be locked in forward.  For PS-2 engine you apply power and let it start up.  Turn power off.  Does the engine play shutdown sounds for 5-8 seconds and complete a shut down sequence?  If not the battery is weak or dead.

Test with smoke off.  Getting to reverse is harder to do than forward.  Besides powering the processor, the battery has to power the relay for reverse.  Sometimes with weak battery that pushes it over the limit and it recycles the board.  G

Thank you for your reply. Sorry to say I don't have instructions to read & that's why I posted here for help. I inherited a collection of MTH & am in the process of going through everything. By the way I have one new  remote control & one used remote system MTH 50-1033. I'm having the same issue with both & I've contacted Jason at MTH without a reply last week. They both ONLY put out 20 volts to the track which is full speed. Nothing I do with the remote will turn down the power. The receiver is getting the signal from the remote but nothing slows the power down.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Here's the batteries I use: EBL 9V Rechargeable Batteries NiMH, never had a problem, I've probably used 40-50 of these.

Do not leave an alkaline battery in there, it should only be used for bench testing.  I've found dead charging circuits with an alkaline battery in the locomotive, I tend to think the two events may be connected.

I don't want to jinx myself here, but the only engine I have ever had the electronics die was my first modern engine I ever bought, a mth ps2 Railking, and I had left a 9V alkaline in it. 

Don't worry Jeff, you have more dead ones in the queue.

I will eventually have to learn to do PS3 and err upgrades I suppose.  Might be fun, but probably not. 😂

Instructions are on MTH web site.  G

stan2004 posted:

The engine on the left is not a PS2 engine.  I believe that's what MTH called LocoSound which did not use a battery.  I don't have any LocoSound engines so can't help you with the locked-in-forward issue.

As for the PS2 engine on the right, if the sounds cut-out as soon as you press the DIRECTION button, then it's almost surely a battery issue.  If you have another PS2 engine that has either a dual-AA or dual-AAA battery I'd swap the battery to see if the locked-in-forward problem follows the engine or the battery.  A PS2 engine that is locked in forward (requiring the Bell-Whistle button reset procedure) will upon application of power behave as follows: faint relay click coming from the circuit board, then engine sounds start for a few seconds, then engine starts moving fwd proportional to throttle.  You need to solve the battery issue first.  That is, even if you successfully reset the engine (to take it out of Fwd lock), you need the battery to "save" the reset as well as to cycle the engine thru the Fwd-neutral-Rev-neutral sequence when you press the Direction button.

Hi Stan... Finally got new batteries & put them in. The F3 diesel now works both forward & reverse. The F40 Diesel doesn't go anywhere. I tried the reset & at the end I only get 1 horn beep. When I hit the Direction key the engine goes black then the lights come on & you hear the simulated engine sound but won't move. Help Please. Where do I go from here?

The f40 behaviour is with a known-good CHARGED battery? In other words you can swap in the battery from the now working f3 and the sounds immediately cut out when pressing direction?

stan2004 posted:

The f40 behaviour is with a known-good CHARGED battery? In other words you can swap in the battery from the now working f3 and the sounds immediately cut out when pressing direction?

Checked both batteries before installing & they were the same. I'm going to pull it apart & check again. Everything stops when I press direction, Lights & sounds. I just pulled it apart & it's 2.6v, just 1 tenth below the 2.7 rating.

Since you have a meter, is it practical to measure the voltage right at the crimped pins in the connector that plugs into the PS2 circuit boards?

I figure this is the last hope for a simple repair - that is, perhaps some broken wire or whatever in the harness between the actual battery and the circuit board.  Confirm the 2 gold colored pins in the white battery connector housing are intact (not bent over, pushed downward thru the board, whatever).

If the known-good battery is making its way to the 2-pin white connector, then unfortunately I'd say you have a problem with the battery management circuit.  This is something you really can't fix yourself.  You could visually inspect the components around the white connector looking for a charred, bulging, cracked, etc. component which would be telling but not helpful in that it's not a DIY repair.

I'm not an authorized MTH tech but I believe the practice in days past would be to replace the so-called PS2 power supply circuit board (the board shown with the 2-pin battery connector).  But this board which I believe is no-longer-available was something like $75 (?) and you had to be an MTH tech to get it...then add labor, two-way shipping of the engine, etc. 

There are several authorized MTH techs who will hopefully provide more informed advice for this particular situation.