Lion Chief Plus Locomotives

Mike, it would be helpful if Lionel documented any of their stuff, the only real wiring diagrams of Legacy stuff has been supplied by Bruk and posted in the documentation thread.  Do you think Lionel would actually facilitate keeping these running by providing such information?  Not a chance!

There's no reason to believe they'll be more forthcoming with the LC and LC+ stuff.

The LC+ 2.0 looks to be TMCC & BT compatible, the Universal Remote will be using BT to talk to the LC+ 2.0 models.  So, they've come full circle, now we'll have TMCC & Legacy with a BT add-on as the "standard" for the future Lionel product line.  The dedicated remotes from the LC+ line are a thing of the past.

It'll be interesting to see where the low-end LC stuff ends up going as far as the dedicated remotes.  I can see some real pushback by consumers if the remote disappears.  Imagine they'll have to give their 3 year old their $1,000 iPhone to run trains, that probably won't go over that well.   They might be planning on using the Universal Remote as the "standard" remote for the LC line...

Although not answering many of your questions, Lionel did publish a chart showing and comparing the features of their various operating systems (hopefully attached.)

It is the inside back cover of their latest 2019 catalogue.

I understand your confusion, Mike. The chart that Richie posted doesn't list everything but it includes the major differences between LC, LC+ and LC+ 2.0.

I think Lionel is trying to get to a single required control system with options to upgrade. MTH has had a big advantage in that all of their engines can be run with DCS. Lionel had a few different and incompatible control systems. With the addition of Bluetooth to Legacy and LC locomotives you will be able to run any newer Lionel engine with either the Universal Remote or the LionChief app on your smartphone or tablet. That will give Lionel a big advantage. New hobbyists won't need a $300+ Legacy  (or DCS) system to enjoy their trains. Eventually the LionChief app MAY be upgraded to the point that it surpasses Legacy.

I think LC+ 2.0 is Lionel's attempt to offer traditional size trains with many advanced features to the conventional and traditional guys, a very large segment of the O gauge market. Bluetooth allows that large segment to add Legacy with bluetooth locomotives to their roster.

Going by the chart provided by Riche C., My PE Lion Chief doesn't have Bluetooth, the only volume control is on the bottom of the tender, it cant be controlled from the remote. Does not have background sounds other than chuffing. The only  crew talk there is, is Tom Hanks citing lines form the movie. It does have Marker lights, 'cause I made it so.

I think the LC (not plus) will always be the "cheap" line.  I think the LC+ 2.0 will be the LionMaster line, and then there will be Legacy.  OTOH, I don't see them doing away with Legacy, they have just made the LC+ 2.0 compatible with the Legacy system.

Here is what I am talking about- this is a year-by-year change history for the C5 Corvette.  Attached.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Imagine they'll have to give their 3 year old their $1,000 iPhone to run trains, that probably won't go over that well.   They might be planning on using the Universal Remote as the "standard" remote for the LC line...

Sadly, most 3 year olds can handle the iPhones better than most of us can. On the other hand, we are definitely better with ZW's. And just to show  we're not really restricted to really old things, we're better with Z4K's also.

Other than that GRJ, you nailed it.

Gerry

It's not them handling the phone, it's them dropping it on the concrete!

 The only  crew talk there is, is Tom Hanks citing lines form the movie. It does have Marker lights, 'cause I made it so.

I also added marker lights...just needed a little more fluff/bells/whistles 

Mike Wyatt posted:

Here is what I am talking about- this is a year-by-year change history for the C5 Corvette.  Attached.

 

 

That wasn't provided by GM, was it?

Brendan

Compiled from information provided to Chevrolet dealers by GM, relating to product launches.   Published by enthusiasts.

It does help other enthusiasts determine which model to look for based on engineering improvements.  Lionel makes such improvements, too, from model run to model run.  Examples would be PRR K4 models released.  We would be able to decide which ones give us the most value, and also determine the appropriate model for our layouts.

@Mike Wyatt I couldn't agree with you more!  I was pestering Lionel for this type of information when they switched from dual to single powered axle trucks, and then to back-drivable gears ("LionDrive") on their premium scale diesels.  It makes a difference in the operation, but Hobby shops don't want to open the box and check!

For our mutual reference, what's the product number of your RS-3 with metal gears and the new, lower gear ratio?  At least we'll have one reference point.  Good topic!

Lionel is not the only company using plastic gears - they work great on many models, and are standard on most HO.  The LC, and LC+ line were originally aimed at more casual hobbyists, many of whom run w/o ballasting track, etc. and I have ballasted track.  At least once a piece of ballast got into the gears of my PRR RS-3, which is probably why the tooth broke. 

In any case, I really LIKE the engine.  So  I replaced the original (plastic-geared) trucks w/ current-issue metal gear sets including the center gear shaft w/ helical gear. 6802171510  It runs much slower and noisier- maybe because it appears to be a much lower gear ratio. I have not been able to confirm this through Lionel.  It's not "bad"- many like slower-running better-pulling locos anyway.

The first LionChief Plus RS-3s sold had plastic gears - built in 2014-16 I believe.   

Original RS-3 PRR       SKU: 6-38816    

Others in same series:

Denver & Rio Grande  SKU: 6-38819,   Chicago and Northwestern  SKU: 6-38778, NYC SKU: 6-38779  Retail $ 329.99

New (2017) Series w/ metal gears and other improvements incl. Blue Tooth and better sound, Retail $ 349.99

Santa Fe SKU: 6-84697,   Delaware & Hudson SKU: 6-84696, Peabody Coal SKU: 6-84698,  Boston & Maine SKU: 6-84699

NOTE:  the LionChief (NOT Plus) 2017 Blue Tooth RS-3's (Retail $ 199.99 and in sets MAY have plastic or metal gears- I have not researched that.

GeoPeg posted:

 The only  crew talk there is, is Tom Hanks citing lines form the movie. It does have Marker lights, 'cause I made it so.

I also added marker lights...just needed a little more fluff/bells/whistles 

Yup! Just added a piece of plastic that surrounds the headlight bulb.

The smart device app vs hand held controller debate keeps coming back like an unemployed relative.

It's purely a personal choice as they both accomplish the very same thing. The only area I ever found where the smart device app was a bit more convenient  was having all active throttles on screen when running simultaneous multiple engines.

Jayhawk500 posted:

GeoPeg posted:

 The only  crew talk there is, is Tom Hanks citing lines form the movie. It does have Marker lights, 'cause I made it so.

I also added marker lights...just needed a little more fluff/bells/whistles 

Yup! Just added a piece of plastic that surrounds the headlight bulb.

If I had known that little green hunk o' plastic existed, I might not have gone to the trouble I did. I grabbed a string of super tiny LED Christmas lites and snipped off a couple of green ones and glued them into place after scraping the paint off the backside of the green jewels that came with the engine. It was a gold colored paint, and when scraped off, light shines right on through the (green) jewel!

BTW, a string of 100 LED Christmas tree lites cost around $1.99 or $2.99 at a local discount store (Marc's) and work perfect!! Red, green, yellow, blue and I think violet … do trains ever have violet lites?

BOB WALKER posted:

The only area I ever found where the smart device app was a bit more convenient  was having all active throttles on screen when running simultaneous multiple engines.

Not with the LC app. One engine control only at time per device...

" I can see some real pushback by consumers if the remote disappears.  "

I agree, which is why I have been mystified by the choice to do exactly that by their main competitor.

I just stuff a couple of discrete LED's into the holes for adding class lights to this type of locomotive without them.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I just stuff a couple of discrete LED's into the holes for adding class lights to this type of locomotive without them.

I wanted to do the same but the way these Xmas lites were built, a glob of epoxy holds the wires straight out to each side, so they couldn't be shoved in any hole! Clear silicone was applied to hold things in place. Good news is they work really well!

LEDs are cheap. I bought an LED assortment pack for $6 that included 5 different colors in three different sizes (2mm, 3mm, 5mm). I think the kit included 300 LEDs all together. As noted before, Christmas LEDs can sometimes come with oddball bases and can be hard to repurpose and are usually in one size only. 

H1000 posted:

LEDs are cheap. I bought an LED assortment pack for $6 that included 5 different colors in three different sizes (2mm, 3mm, 5mm). I think the kit included 300 LEDs all together. As noted before, Christmas LEDs can sometimes come with oddball bases and can be hard to repurpose and are usually in one size only. 

True, very true - in this case referencing the "odd bases." However, what you're not taking into account is my wife who bought these and decided she didn't want to use them - all such products then flow to me for returning, recycling or repurposing! 

GeoPeg posted:

Jayhawk500 posted:

GeoPeg posted:

 The only  crew talk there is, is Tom Hanks citing lines form the movie. It does have Marker lights, 'cause I made it so.

I also added marker lights...just needed a little more fluff/bells/whistles 

Yup! Just added a piece of plastic that surrounds the headlight bulb.

If I had known that little green hunk o' plastic existed, I might not have gone to the trouble I did. I grabbed a string of super tiny LED Christmas lites and snipped off a couple of green ones and glued them into place after scraping the paint off the backside of the green jewels that came with the engine. It was a gold colored paint, and when scraped off, light shines right on through the (green) jewel!

BTW, a string of 100 LED Christmas tree lites cost around $1.99 or $2.99 at a local discount store (Marc's) and work perfect!! Red, green, yellow, blue and I think violet … do trains ever have violet lites?

I was looking for a simple bolt in fan smoke unit or the whistling smoke unit. Neither were available anymore for the PE. That's when I happened on the hunk-o-plastic. I thought, "I can use that!"