Lionel 18149 Veranda Turbine smoke issues

New in the box or not this engine is 13 years old and the one I have (bought at auction several years ago) developed smoke issues similar to yours after relatively little run time.

I'm sure that the manual describes the smoke sequence which is that the rear stack (representing the prototype's diesel engine) comes on at start up and stays on until the turbine kicks in at whatever speed step corresponds to about 20/25 scale mph.

I dimly recall that both the forward turbine and the rear diesel smoke units on mine had the old-fashioned sleeves on the smoke unit heating element and are otherwise candidates for the treatment described in Mike Reagan's smoke unit 101 video, including enlarging the air inlet hole over the impeller.

I know the Norm C. videos you refer to and again from memory he was an early exponent of modifying the stock Lionel smoke units of 10+ years ago. I always assumed that he had done what Mike R. later recommended  for SMUs of this vintage. It worked on my set (as it has on other TMCC engines of that time).

Trouble is this means taking off the body shell to get at the SMUs but it's not a particularly difficult exercise to do so.

Hope this assists and good luck!

I wish you lots of luck! I had one of these Engines and Loved it until I had Smoke issues. I sent it in for repair probably 10 or 12 years ago. Repair told me that it was repaired, but it was the last Smoke Unit boards Available for that Engine, Hope they were able to come up with more since then.

Sincerely,

Fred

Given the age of this model it would not be surprising if there were few parts in stock but if you check the replacement parts list on lionelsupport.com you'll find that the distinctive smoke units (they are square and rated at 8 Ohm) are still available.

The 8 Ohm rating puzzles me because in later model Lionel engines using identically rated resistors there  is an AC regulator associated with it but I can't see that's the case with this model. Why that is so is a question for an expert.

Anyway, as I have already said I think that these are old-fashioned smoke units with the resistor encased in a sleeve, which Mike R. recommended removing. If you check the replacement parts page you'll see that the smoke unit PCBs include the sleeve.

In case it matters/helps I remembered a couple of things after looking at this engine's separate supplemental instruction sheet on the smoke features.

First, there are unique commands to turn the smoke units on/off under TMCC:

AUX1, 1+2 toggles the rear smoke unit between on and off

AUX1, 2+1 toggles the front unit FAN on and off

AUX1, 2+2 toggles the front unit HEATER on and off

Why separate controls for the front unit fan and resistor I don't know.

Second, the rear smoke unit may be slow to start up. The instruction sheet says it takes 30 seconds to heat. I never found it took quite that long but it certainly doesn't output smoke straightaway after starting the engine.

Hancock and Freds Trains

thank you very much for your comments and suggestions.

I will open up the unit this weekend and take a look.

I will check for loose connections, remove the wick sleeves, maybe repack the units per the norm/Mike R process, reassemble, and hope I get some consistent fan action. Otherwise, I may need to get the parts/send it over to my local repair expert.

Jeff

On a side note... HEY LIONEL!  MAKE THIS AGAIN!  Yes I am screaming on the internet.

I opened up the units.

The fans work properly; rear is on at start up. As I notch up the throttle the rear goes off and the front goes on, as they should. Both heat elements work ok.

I removed the wick sleeve from the resistor. I enlarged the fan intake hole per the Mike Reagan video. I put in Lionel wicking, per the Mike Reagan video. I put it in underneath the element, just touching it.

Initially it worked great. Smoke coming out in a strong steady blast (like the video) from the front. Then the smoke started coming out in a weak stream, even though the smoke itself was still very viable.

What might the problem be?

Is there a correct way to put in the wicking material so that it does not block the fan yet it permits a very strong forceful flow of smoke? 

I think that if the wicking is just touching the resistor you may find that there is not enough contact there once the fluid level has gone down. With other Lionel 8 Ohm rated smoke units (as I said in an earlier post I'm puzzled about that but the answer will have to come from an expert), I've found the resistor placed well into the wicking material, about halfway into it, but without blocking the channel from the fan chamber into the smoke bowl. This is not easy to manage because that channel can be easily obstructed. You might have to open up the unit again, re-pack the wicking and saturate it. Unfortunately I have found that the only way to get the maximum performance out these older units is to take them apart.

P.S. Can I second Marty's shout/scream i.e. LIONEL PLEASE MAKE THE VERANDA AGAIN - AS YOUR NEXT VL ENGINE. 

Hancock 52

thank you

Guess I will take them apart again and keep playing around with the wicking until I get it right.

Also concur on making another veranda as the next VL engine!

I just bought one this will be my 3rd one I also noticed the smoke problem but with all 3 of the ones I had the problem is that it is way under powered on grades so my hope is that if they ever do a legacy or VL one and yes I will buy one very quickly they will add 4 motors I also have a MTH one and with 4 motors it climbs great but nothing beats a diecast veranda with working smoke units and 4 motors pulling a 30 car train on a grade good luck on you fix I will do mine at some point over the winter

I don't know whether anyone has diagnosed some board/electronic malfunction with this model that would account for erratic smoke performance - I've read a lot about the model on this forum and elsewhere and not seen anything of that kind. Might be as well to do an engine reset at some point just to ensure that the TMCC smoke control is not befuddled.

Regarding motors, the Lionel Veranda has great pulling power with two although I have seen the traction tires go quite regularly (as the ones supplied with the model are way beyond any realistic useful life now). The 4 motors in the MTH version strike me as a recipe for some form of electronic disaster and I doubt with the space required for Legacy electronics there'd be room enough inside the shell for the extra pair. Besides that, I'd rather that Lionel got the turbine exhaust smoke volume cranked up to prodigious proportions and added a start-up sequence like their HO version of many years ago. 

Having said all that, if someone put an MTH PS3 Veranda under my Christmas Tree I'd be delighted - as long as that model's own smoke issues had been resolved!