Lionel 18953 NYC PA-1 and B unit

Ray...I have a couple of these locomotives and am very happy with them.  They run quite well and in my opinion the horn is one of the most impressive I have every heard.....

 

Alan

I have both the PA-1 and B unit. These look great with a set of Aluminum passenger cars and make for an impressive consist. I disconnected the horn on the engine since the B unit has full rail sounds. The engine originally only has Signal Sounds - horn and bell only - no motor sounds.

Dave

 

    Can you be more detailed in your explanation about sound? Do the b units have better sounds than the A?

 

Thanks

 

Ray Marion

Alan

 

     In any of all your wonderful pics, do you have one of the PA's?

 

Ray Marion

Ray...both units have sound with the B-unit having the full TMCC sound system.  The A-unit has signal sounds BUT the horn on both units sound wonderful together.  You just need to try them together and I think you will enjoy!!

 

Alan

I find using the horn on both can get rather maddening. Although I have found the sounds to be much richer or fuller in both units.

 

I'm still curious as to why Lionel didn't origially sell the A unit with full sounds, unless there wasn't an Alco sound chip available at the time.

I'm still curious as to why Lionel didn't origially sell the A unit with full sounds, unless there wasn't an Alco sound chip available at the time.

How else could they make you buy a "B" unit??? 

 

The Erie PA was originally cataloged with a Railsounds, but then they issued with Signal Sounds.  The next catalog had a Railsounds "B" unit.  The thing that annoyed me was the Erie never had PB's but I had already bought the PA and wanted Railsounds so I ended up buying it anyway.  It would have been smarter just to issue another PA with the Railsounds.

 

The D&H PB is another work of fiction, too.  The D&H only bought the PA's from Santa Fe.

 

Fred

The original release of the PA-1 was NY Central and Santa Fe.  They were supposed to be introductory engines for TMCC and have minimum add on features.  These use the original "L" shaped LCRU and mating sound boards.  Despite the length of the engine and it being a cab unit there isn't a lot of room inside.  They are nice loco's and they run well.  The axle nearest the fuel tank is blind.  This allows the 17+" loco to navigate O-31 curves.  It looks pretty lame doing so but it is possible.  I eventually swapped out the Signal Sounds board for a RailSounds 2.5 unit.  I have found the dedicated "B" units have better baffling and sound better than the "A"s that have the speaker crammed into whatever space is left.  While I like having the full Alco sound set, the horn and bell on SS sounded better.

We have an ABA set of these that I'd like to run together as a 3 unit locomotive. Where do I need to reverse the wires in one of the A units so that it will start in reverse?

Is it possible to create a lash-up using the Cab1 to do this?

Here's a picture of them on my dining room table...

  

  

As a comparison, here's a pic of the MTH Premier (early) ones... (on my kitchen table )

  

 

Thanks!

Mario

Is it possible to create a lash-up using the Cab1 to do this?

 

Yes.  Follow the instructions on this link:

 

http://www.coilcouplers.com/tmc/tmclash.html

Ray i have the Santa version A&B, the horn and start up sounds are fantastic IMHO.  I'll look for a video and attach if i find it.  Found it.  about the 2:20 point I finally blew the horn :-)

 

 

 

http://youtu.be/cmURx_KhAa4

Here's a video... (not mine )

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmwYTsxXOH8

 

I like the startup sounds...

 

Thanks,

Mario

 

 

Hi Ray...

 

I see that others have posted pictures before I was able to respond....isn't this forum great!!!  Anyway, here are a few pictures I just took for you.  I have the earlier release with the silver trucks...

 

Alan

 

 

 

Found it...

  

 

Or was this photo taken before painting the trucks?

 

Thanks,

Mario 

Thank you all for the pics and information. I am looking forward to receiving it soon. Next, find a B unit.

 

Bill If that is the original horn WOW! Thanks for the video.

 

Alan Thanks for taking the time and posting the pics. What sounds does the B unit have that the A doesn't?

 

Thanks again

 

Ray Marion

Sam just listed one on the buy sell board.

I have 2 of these with 2 PB's the only problem I have had with these is if I try to run one backwards one forward the back wards one will jump the track. But in all I love them. I have a Williams PB as my second PB now I have added coil coupler to both PA-1's and the Williams PB-1 the Lionel already has it as you all know. One of my PA's and the Lionel PB has had it trucks and fuel tank painted black to match the trucks on the passenger cars ( this was done befor I got mine.) I presently have them set up as A-A-B-B with a NYC boxcar and 7 MTH passenger cars behind that. Not the greatest pics but heres a you tube of mine running.

I recommend turning volume down to a little less than 1/2 way as it is recorded loud also for better effects goto full screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8D1r_JkPAc

Creating a lash-up with these was surprisingly easy after watching the excellent TMCC Tutorial supplied by Chuck in the above post. Mine started and took off after the first try!

Even with the traction tires long gone, this puppy should pull fairly well.

Odd thing is that the RS in the B unit doesn't seem to sound when the Signal Sounds horn blows in the lead A unit. It works fine by itself however...

These  PA-1's have a messy wiring harness.  There are a number of wire nuts that are overloaded for their size and these can contribute to operation problems.  They do not have modular components or a "backplane".

 

A consist under tmcc ONLY uses the whistle/horn from the "lead" unit.  If you make up a consist with a dummy b as a separate engine, the horn/whistle will never blow in the consist.  Dummy units should be programmed with the same id as their powered mates.  This creates one "logical" engine from two units.  Under this scenario, the lead and dummy horns will blow.  You can only do this with one "pair", aka you can make up an ABA consist with the lead A and B as a single engine and the trailing A as a separate one.  You can't tie the trailing A to the B at the same time.  When the consist runs in reverse, only the trailing A units horn/whistle will work.  You coul create an ABBA consist  with paired AB's running back to back.  Even under this scenario you would only get dual sounds from one of the pairs, which ever one is in the lead at the time.

Can anyone tell me where to obtain a copy of the manuals?

 

Thanks again

 

Ray Marion

PB manual s online...  I can scan my PA manual and send you a pdf file

 

A unit:

 

Alco PA-1 Diesel Locomotive - 9/97 

 

B unit:

 

Alco PB-1 Non-Powered Diesel Locomotive - 10/99 

Nice find on the PA manual - must have copied the wrong url for the PB manual. 

Ray Marion...They are great engines. Your gonna love them.

Centralfan76, Mario...thanks for posting my video of the Alco's. I made that video last year for someone on the forum. That was my Christmas layout from 2010.

Mike R

Ahhh, yes... Christmas layout... that would explain the reindeer droppings!

 

 

Thanks,

Mario 

Great thread ,  I believe these engines were the start of Lionel overseas when Mike Wolf worked for Richard Kugn. They are great engines and seeing the pics bring back some great memories! Mines are safely packed away waiting to start service again someday!!

 

 

Doug

Dave and Chuck

     Once again thank you both for the quickly supplied information.

 

Thanks to the everyone else for raising my anticipation.

 

Ray Marion

I have the Santa Fe PA/PB and for early scale Lionel they are great. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that even though it's somewhat early TMCC you can add ERR in the A unit. I did with help from ERR on some additional wiring and it make a neat loco run so much nicer! If anyone is interest in adding ERR I have the wiring addendum they gave to me somewhere in my stack of paperwork. Next project is to look at putting smoke in them.