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Charlienassau posted:

I am sorry I can't get into specifics about what is in it. Many of you will be quite happy. New tooling and some old upgraded favorites are back too. Lionel is teaming up with Disney once again and new accessories to please many price points. After looking thru all the catalogs I am very pleased with the BTO offerings. Check it out at our site Monday. Thanks!

So Disney.... Star Wars.  I want a Darth Vader HHP-8 and a R2D2 NW-2 to go with my C3PO F3 to pull my Jawa Trader waffle side boxcars full of droid parts.

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All kinds of other real world things have been decorated for Starwars I think it could be fun and would definitly appeal to the type of person who would collect toy trains.

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Last edited by Silver Lake
Charlienassau posted:

... With the exception of one no one has given details out and we will abide by that request! ...

Well... at least that dealer didn't create a thread title here several days ago giving us all the impression that you had ALREADY posted the catalog.    Nobody's a choirboy here, Charlie. Let's call it like it is.     More than a few dealers have clearly shared some info with their customers.  That's pretty obvious. 

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer

I also agree with Marty, I bet we see the SP Daylight with new cars. Makes sense given the cool ESE cars. Got to make a mark when you have a really new product.  Take advantage of the market. Hopefully if the have new cars with the LED lighting they have added figures - like Alex did.  I would prefer they come from Lionel that way or Alex will be a very busy man.  

Rocky Mountaineer posted:
Charlienassau posted:

... With the exception of one no one has given details out and we will abide by that request! ...

Well... at least that dealer didn't create a thread title here several days ago giving us all the impression that you had ALREADY posted the catalog.    Nobody's a choirboy here, Charlie. Let's call it like it is.     More than a few dealers have clearly shared some info with their customers.  That's pretty obvious. 

I guess it's all how you read it. But back to Charlie's point. While I'm sure dealers have talked with customers, it appears most didn't directly post any catalog info.

Rusty Traque posted:
falconservice posted:

Disney is a huge company compared to Lionel. I hope that Lionel did not have to pay Disney in the agreement. Most Disney movies cost as much as Lionel earns in one year.

Andrew

Disney doesn't give away licenses for free.

Rusty

I recall reading that in the 1970's..due to Lionel's name recognition, they didn't have to pay for all the licenses they used on their colorful boxcars...including Disney. 

GG1GUYY posted:

I was at the TCA  ATLANTIC DIV  trainmeet yesterday and got to see a dealers price list.

STICKER SHOCK IS ALL I WILL SAY.

GG1GUYY

 

Not surprised to hear that, Sal.  I can't WAIT to see them published here on Wednesday AM.  Some dealers have reported plans to post shortly after Midnight, so we may not even need to wait until 9AM. 

If the catalog prices pan out to how I'm thinking they will, this may very well be the year that LOTS of folks including myself just back away from major toy/model train purchases.  I have a few in the pipeline already for 2016 from pre-order commitments made in 2015, so it won't take much for me to just walk away from stuff in this new catalog.  I don't know how the importers expect folks to continue shelling out premium $$$$ willy-nilly for the new stuff.  Case in point:  somebody just posted a LN JLC Allegheny for $800 here on the forum.  Does Lionel REALLY think folks are gonna trip over themselves rushing to spend what may be $1600-$1700 street-price ($2200 MSRP) for the Legacy version -- just because it has whistle-steam???     REALLY???  

It wasn't THAT long ago that you'd spend $5K in this hobby and walk away with maybe 8-10 "expensive" new-production items.  Nowadays, we're lucky to make 3-4 purchases before exceeding $5K.  That's pretty scary.  Everywhere we turn today -- whether it be Lionel, Atlas-O, 3rdRail/GGD, or whomever -- it appears there is no shortage of $1,500-$2,000 pricetags on stuff.  And even if some items are priced less (i.e., Atlas-O Maxi-IV Well Cars and Containers for example), folks end up spending $1,500+ EASY by the time they buy a bunch of those goodies..  

Funny (ironic) how times change.  I can recall folks at Lionel indicating they needed to go "easy" on introducing Vision Line products, 'cause they thought it would be tough for the market to absorb the expense of new Vision Line products year-after-year.  Well, nowadays, even the non-VisionLine stuff carries some pretty hefty price-tags that are close to -- or even exceeding -- Vision Line prices of several years ago.    But I guess importers don't care all that much now, because the risk sits largely within the dealer network for BTO items -- not in the importer's warehouse facilities.

But hey... as long as consumers keep ordering (i.e., pre-ordering BTO items, which tend to be the high-ticket items), the importers have no reason to hold back on stratospheric prices.  In fact, they're probably planning one HUGE party and laughing all the way to the bank the day after all the dealer BTO orders are due.  

David 

Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer

David you are the Ralph Nader of toy trains.  NoT that it's a bad thing.  I suspect the market will dictate what Lionel can price themselves at.  Whether folks start seeking alternatives will be anyone's guess.  I just watched 2 guys drop over $4k the other day at the hobby shop.  They don't seem to mind the cost of trains.  Then again folks have different tolerances levels of pricing.  I won't belittle anyone that is able to purchase what they want nor will I anyone that seeks lower priced alternatives.

Last edited by MartyE

>>>But hey... as long as consumers keep ordering (i.e., pre-ordering BTO items, which tend to be the high-ticket items), the importers have no reason to hold back on stratospheric prices.  In fact, they're probably planning one HUGE party and laughing all the way to the bank the day after all the dealer BTO orders are due.  <<<

 

Exactly right.  But only with Lionel...   Mention to a Lionel fan about any Lionel engine for sale even earlier legacy at a great price and you'll find most will curl their noses. with a huge no way smirk. For that crowd its new or nothing at all.   Not  so with Atlas or MTH P-2.    You'll get a totally  opposite reaction.  They're simply more savvy shoppers while the captured Lionel marketplace,  well lets say.. they're completely .................

Joe

Build to order is all about managing the supply chain and with it comes efficiencies of scale at the production level. BTO also allows Lionel, MTH or any other manufacturer the ability to have more insight to the customer base. Second, in the case of our hobby, flooding the market and devaluing assets, my engines, your engines, that we have shelled our hard earned money. This was especially frustrating when you joined the CC! and CCII clubs. You paid $200 per club just to get in and then paid premiums for what was supposed to be a high value collectable. Lionel must have surely made commitments to their 3rd party manufacturers, when CCI and CCII products did not sell at the quantity levels, they were modified and sent out the next year as a "new Model" at 1/2 the price immediately reducing the value of the so called "collector" items. Remember these CCI and CCII's engines were priced around $1k, huge price in the 90's.

Can you imaging of you bought the Big Boy for $2K under the past practices and they did not sell? They remaining inventory would have flooded the market place instantly agitating the customer base again. Took me 10 years to come back to Lionel, I bought Atlas & MTH, still do, bit for 10 years I was piXXXED off.

BTO is a good think, less inventory, dealers make money (8 hobby shops in my area have gone out of business, only 1 remains within 10 miles of my house) and I therefore plan purchases. I fully expect sticker shock at the SRP level, my bet is the GG! comes out with an SRP of over $1,200.00. Look at the 2015 prices of BTO ES44 diesels, $649.00 SRP, street price between $500 ~ $575. All that means to me is I buy one this year and hope the sister unit is around. Fortunately or unfortunately my local dealer, who I try to support, did not speculate by buying a few more. Guess what, he is happy as can be, inventory in and out within 2 days. 

I will look at the at the catalog, maybe I buy something, who knows but engines at the $2k level, is like a downpayment on a Lease car or a week at the shore. 

Their is a limit and it will be pushed as long as people want to but them. Need a willing buyer and a willing seller.  The forum is a great place to buy items. It has been very good to me and so have the shop owners who are sponsors. 

Off the soap box. I can't wait to see the catalog, just hoping their is something that I like regardless of the price.

MartyE posted:

David you are the Ralph Nader of toy trains.  NoT that it's a bad thing.  I suspect the market will dictate what Lionel can price themselves at.  Whether folks start seeking alternatives will be anyone's guess.  I just watched 2 guys drop over $4k the other day at the hobby shop.  They don't seem to mind the cost of trains.  Then again folks have different tolerances levels of pricing.  I won't belittle anyone that is able to purchase what they want nor will I anyone that seeks lower priced alternatives.

No offense Marty but that was 2 guys....how many come in and don't buy at all?  My point is I believe that is the exception not the rule.  Anyone surprised how many ES44's are left?  Did the dealers see how fast the run went and figure they would order more?  All I know is there are a ton of forum sponsors with $600 plastic diesels on the shelf.  

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