Lionel 2343 Power Problem

@Tom L posted:

...noticed that when power is applied to the e-unit, the plunger rises and rotates the drum,..  ...drops when power is interrupted...

This is the proper operation.

@Tom L posted:

I replaced the fingers and drum in e-unit, and the same problem continued...

This is probably the issue.  Have you tested the motors separately for proper operation?

Swap the brush connections to reverse the motor.

I had just rebuilt and tested the motor.  It ran fine in both directions.

@Tom L posted:

I had just rebuilt and tested the motor...

That narrows it down to the E-Unit & connections. Is this a 2343 or a 2243?  Follow the wiring carefully:

Wire up one motor and get it running, then wire the other in parallel.

In all the e-units I have assembled, the yellow wire (lower) comes from the 2 finger assembly and the green/blue/black wires (upper) come from the 4 finger assembly.  I assume it does not matter to which outside motor terminal the yellow and blue wires are attached as long as they are on the same side on the other motor.  I think the problem I am having is that when power is applied, the plunger rotates the drum but does not then drop.  The coil remains activated which, in turn, keeps the plunger in the up position until power is interrupted.

@Tom L posted:

I think the problem I am having is that when power is applied, the plunger rotates the drum but does not then drop.  The coil remains activated which, in turn, keeps the plunger in the up position until power is interrupted.

That is not the problem, that is normal operation.

Still having problem getting power to the motors.  I have replaced both sets of fingers and the drum on the e-unit.  Replaced motors with rebuilt motors that tested good.  I have reversed the polarity to the brushes.  There is power to the light and e-unit (no horn installed), but not to either of the motors.  Any other suggestions?  Thanks.  Tom L

Tom L

You have checked out just about every thing except whether your armature has a shorted or open coil.

Check the resistance between the sections of the armature, at the copper wedges where the brushes contact,  with a VOM.  Just take the fiber plate off where the brushes are held.  They should all be about the same resistance.  I had a similar problem with Marx motor, with every thing seeming in good condition.  I found differences between different armature sections resistance and bought a used armature on eBay that fixed the motor.

Charlie

Check both motor field wires connected to each motor are soldered on good and also check the field ground wire on each motor.

Just today i removed old postwar switcher shell to oil the motor wick put it back on simple right , somehow i moved wire going to headlamp in the process. Put shell back on and it blew fuse when powered up found frayed wire to eyelet in lamp housing started touching the metal housing and fixed it.

Let us know when you get yours back up and running how it was fixed as it may help others in future with similar problem.

All the motors wiring looks solid.  I have used 4 different rebuilt motors, all of which ran strong when tested individually.  Internally, the e-unit works properly; just no power going to the motors.  All the wiring is new.

Wondering if I need to check the resistance between armature sections since the motors run strong when tested individually (ref Charlie's suggestion).

This is a simplified diagram for the 2343... if the motors work on the test bench, and you are wired in this fashion and still no motion, then the E-unit fingers and drum are at fault.

It's time for pictures now to see where you are at...

@Tom L Are you sure you placed the E unit finger boards in correctly with the wires exiting as shown? If not, the curvature of the fingers will not be making contact with the drum contact, and power will not be sent to the motors. Rob is correct, it’s time for some photos.
Also, have you checked for continuity through the E-unit wiring between the 2 and 4 finger contacts as the drum cycles?

E-unit pictures attached.  Unsure how to test continuity between 2 & 4 finger contacts as drum cycles.  Have tester set for continuity.  Please explain.  Thanks.

Is the ground path from the outer rails/wheels to the field winding actually present?

Dave

Is it just me? I cannot 100% tell what terminal the black wire is connected to- by that I mean the whip end of it, not the fingers.

In other words, that is supposed to go to power AKA 3rd rail, and again, I could be wrong but might it be connected to the wrong lug of the E unit on off switch?

@Dtrainmaster posted:

Is the ground path from the outer rails/wheels to the field winding actually present?

Dave

Agreed, the 2 faults I think it could be are the black wire not being to power and possibly since the field of each motor is the last of the series path to frame ground.

The fact it is not humming at all and not getting power- the fingers and drum look intact and assembled- but somehow I think there is a mistake and that could be the black wire of where it goes and is soldered to (should be the same lug with the 3rd rail track power and lights.

That switch has 2 lugs basically, one is the lug to the magnet wire of the E-unit coil and is shorted to frame ground when the switch is in the on position, and the other is the "hot" terminal where several wires join- the coil wire, the black wire to the fingers feeding the motors, and the lights as well as the 3rd rail pickups.

The more I look and compare- that seems to be the mistake.

Notice on this unit, the ON/Off side of the lug or eyelet is low near the corner of the PCB- to ensure the handle is offset to one side when actually in the on position. The HOT lug is centered in the edge of the insulator board. This is also a vertical style unit where the handle would poke out the top of the shell

VS This is a hang down style unit where the handle goes downwards to the track. The right side lug as shown in this picture I believe to the the Hot lug where the black wire should be attached- but instead the black wire is going to the lug and eyelet nearer the lower edge of the insulator board on the left side. That's the ground contact that turns on and off the E-unit VS the hot lug as a common power point for 3rd rail power.

I think Vernon has it. That's a scenario where the E-unit and lights would still work (provided the roller wire is connected to that main power tab) but the motor would be seeing ground at both inputs.

Dave

I had the black wire from the finger assembly connected to the wrong side of the e-unit.  Works fine now.  Thanks so much, guys, for hanging in there with me.  Very appreciated.  Tom LoPresti