lionel 2353 dual motor operation

A non-exhaustive lists of a few thoughts:

• Worm Shaft Bearings - these are directional and are easy to install incorrectly. Also should not be overlooked in cleaning/lubrication.
• Ensure that the pickup rollers are clean and lubricated with something like CRC 2-26 where the roll on the pin.
• Weak collector springs
• Loose field mount studs

An offhand guess is you have either left out a bearing or thrust washer, as I recall, these motors were pretty picky if you didn't assemble the bearings and washers in exactly the right way.

@gunrunnerjohn, the 2353 uses horizontal motors and therefore basic disassembly does not expose any thrust washers or bearings like a vertical motor.

@bmoran4 posted:

@gunrunnerjohn, the 2353 uses horizontal motors and therefore basic disassembly does not expose any thrust washers or bearings like a vertical motor.

I know it uses horizontal motors.  Read the OP's first post, he took the motors apart.  I suspect that indeed does expose the bearings and thrust washers.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I know it uses horizontal motors.  Read the OP's first post, he took the motors apart.  I suspect that indeed does expose the bearings and thrust washers.

From what I gathered from OP, he removed the brushplate to clean the armature. Unless the gear was removed from the opposite end of the armature, no thrust washers, bearings or anything of the sort is liberated. I guess it is up to @GrandpaChooChoo to further clarify what was done.

Well, yes, after suggesting this issue, I was hoping he'd clarify just how far the disassembly went.

Make sure that both bearings are in the right position with angle cut on top.

Thanks everyone for the quick responses. The motors on 2333-2353 units are horizontal- I pulled off the brushplates, cleaned the armatures till they were bright, cleaned off the brushes and reinserted them into the brushplate with slots up top to catch the brush spring and put everything back together. The picture sent by franktrain was appreciated- as they say- a picture is worth a thousand words-the notch has to be on top. Collector springs are good, pickup rollers are near new. The gearshaft was lubed on the shaft tube indent and also with a small dab of white lithium in the bearing slot.  The pickup rollers have a black line down the middle (arcing?) rather than the usual shiny rub mark.

Still would like to know why the hot rollers and slow forward movement vs fast reverse operation...

The engines are worth the effort for me to get it right. Pics attached for inspiration to all. Long live Lionel Postwar!

You could check to see if the rims of the wheels are rubbing against the truck block. The worm drive puts a lateral force on the axle in only one direction when the loco is always run forward and can cause wear on one side only.   A variety of different split washers can be snapped over the axle to fix this, or the wheels can be pulled and new bearings installed.

Try running Dummy A,.Dummy B, Powered A, then train?

How much power is going to the track?  Dual motor PW F units are power hogs.

The hot rollers and slow speed screams out that the motors / drive trucks are binding in forward and drawing a lot more current than in reverse.  The object of the exercise is to find out where.

I'm with GRJ and Dave on this one. Look for wheel rub. This is a common issue in older engines that have been run for a long time in one direction.

BTW, horizontal motored unit were never super fast and tend to be noisier than their vertical motored counterparts.

Chris

LVHR

Thanks to everyone who replied. Your suggestions were helpful. I have done many F-3's over the years- have 5 I am working on at present- need to buy parts to do that.  On this unit- I had a chassis I restored first, then the cabs got painted, then got 2 motors with connected eunit off an bay purchase several weeks ago. Bought front and rear powered trucks together from a different ebay vendor listing- and then put everything together for a trial run 2 days ago.

I got scammed on the rear truck.. I found the following after everyone's input 1) Took the motor off and verified my work on the motors- everything was perfect on front and back motors received from the first vendor. 2) Then I knew that the power trucks were the weak link from the second vendor.  Front truck checked out fine . 3) The rear power truck was loaded with grease and the bearings were both correctly placed with the notches topside when I pulled the top cover plate. 3) When I pulled the side frames off both sides of the rear truck and spun the wheels by hand, I noticed that the rear wheel set near the gear was turning properly- the front set was not . The wheel on the front right side was on the axel at an angle and rubbing against the power truck frame(totally glazed shiny one) which pulled off with a simple tug of my fingers.  With the wheel off, I continued to watch and saw the right side axel tip that protruded had a bend(not level when it turned).  Also noticed pound marks on the front of the wheel that pulled off easily. The left side front wheel was scuffed as well because the slop of the axel moving side to side in the frame when turned by the motor which caused the motor to bind and get hot under load.. Obviously not quartered properly. In short- well organized fraud. Thought I would check with old reliable (OGR readers Forum) first- get your feedback and then go after the seller( who had a 100% satisfaction rating) with Ebay in the loop. The hobby is still fun but I am really mad about this after all my hard work...

Pictures attached for all to view.

Regards to everybody!   

Just hit the return item button on your eBay. The seller has to take item back, and send you a shipping label. Will not cost you anything. I would not return it for something that could be easily repaired, but a bent axel is not considered an easy repair.

Chris