Lionel 6-38000 ESE Smoke Problem

Too much smoke fluid will do that. It cools the resistor too much. Put a paper towel over the stack, turn it upside down and try to shake out some of the fluid.

Pete

Thanks for your help. I tried shaking it over a paper towel and then held the towel against t he stack and shook it upside down for a few mins. Couldn’t seem to get anything to drip out.  

The fan is spinning on the locos chuff cycle, but no smoke.  I can try to leave it upside down overnight if you think that would help.

Thanks again,

It sounds like there is another problem. Two things to try just to rule them out is move the smoke switch back and forth a few times. If you are running with TMCC/Legacy make sure smoke is on by hitting AUX1 9. If still no smoke it may be time to pull the shell and check for broken or pinched wires.

Pete

Let’s look at the clues,….Pete is correct, if you flooded the smoke unit, she won’t say a word. Sometimes when you dropper in the smoke fluid, it’ll create a bubble and lock air from moving,….so you think you might have flooded it, then it sat, then it smoked great for a couple hours, , then it quit again?….is that the correct sequence of events?…..have you added anymore smoke fluid since it quit smoking??..if not, put in about 5-6 drops, then blow down the stack with your mouth,…it don’t take much, just enough to clear the bubble,….I’d try that and report back,….

Pat

Thanks Pete and Pat. I’ll try what you have recommended right now.

sequence of events....Nov of last year purchased used. Smoked perfectly for a few days.  Added Lionel smoke fluid occasionally without problem during that time period. Around day 4-5 added a half to 3/4 of the dropper of JT Mega-Steam accidentally. Squeezed to hard.  Wasn’t able to get it to smoke again. Ran it off and on for a few days. Reset the loco to factory TMCC settings via reset. Blew down the stack a few times and placed it overnight upside down during those few days.  Switched the smoke lever off and on a few times. Still couldn’t get it to smoke again. Gave up, figured it needed repair.  

The loco sat untouched from Jan of 2021 to yesterday. When I placed it on the tracks it started to smoke within 30 seconds and smoked perfectly for the next couple of hours of run time. Shut down for the night while it was smoking. The next afternoon, fired it up and it would not smoke. Hit AUX1 9, not too long to burn anything up, 1-2 seconds max. Still nothing.

Could be a bad regulator causing this intermittent issue. You'll get really amazing smoke right before it quits for good.

Number 3 on the 6-38000 parts list

Rick is right, the regulator is the top suspect.  I've replaced a ton of these over the years!  I'd also check the smoke unit resistor screws, make sure they're good and tight.

The AC regulator could definitely be the problem. Its also has a semi smart smoke unit. Both solutions looking for a problem. Looks like you will need to pull the shell, then do some checking with a multimeter. First check the resistor. It should read 8 ohms. If you are lucky it reads infinity. Problem found. If it reads 8 ohms you have to power up the engine and see if there is voltage across the resistor.

If you are comfortable doing this OK, if not it may be time to send it out.

Pete

Thanks for the help and suggestions. Added 6 drops of Lionel smoke fluid. Switched the smoke lever on and off and back on. Placed on track and blew down stack. Pressed AUX1 then 9 for 3 seconds. No smoke. The fan can be heard at each chuff.

Then it’s most likely kaput, and as the others have mentioned, it’s time for a look around,….bummer,…I had my fingers crossed for a simple cure,….😔

Pat

Thanks for all your help. I ordered a new regulator from Lionel. I’ve been able to add sound and an AC Commander to MPC and LTI Hudsons and Mohawks. Think I might have the skills to tackle this?

@Rhinoh posted:

Thanks for all your help. I ordered a new regulator from Lionel. I’ve been able to add sound and an AC Commander to MPC and LTI Hudsons and Mohawks. Think I might have the skills to tackle this?

As mentioned by the masters, ( I wish I was one of them) I would do a little investigating first, and make sure there’s resistance across the element, and also make sure something silly like a loose screw isn’t hanging  you up,…to be sure nothing would aggravate me more than to replace a regulator when the element has gone bye-byes…..10 minutes of diag will confirm the answers,…

Pat

Like I said previously, check the screws that hold the smoke resistor, those frequently work loose from heating/cooling and then you don't get smoke.  If those are tight, and the smoke resistor is reading around 8 ohms, it's most likely the regulator.  If the smoke resistor is reading more like six ohms, that's probably why the smoke regulator is dead!  You will want to replace that with an 8 ohm smoke resistor, that was a change suggested by Lionel years ago when the 6 ohm resistors were cooking smoke regulators.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Like I said previously, check the screws that hold the smoke resistor, those frequently work loose from heating/cooling and then you don't get smoke.

I just had this with my Texas class cylinder steam unit.  Pulled the smoke unit apart and tightened the screws and cleaned up the smoke unit with new batting.  Works great again.

When I find smoke units with the screws...I do away with them and solder the resistors to the smoke unit lid.

No more concerns.

Thanks. I’ll check the resistor with a multimeter, tighten screws and inspect smoke unit and batting before doing anything. Really appreciate the advice.

Tim

Thanks again for the help. Opened up the smoke unit and this is what I found. The batting was charred to the element. Took some finesse to work it off. It is hard and brittle, very much like a piece of charcoal.

Element

Some charring is to be expected, after all, it is a smoke unit,…have you hung a meter across the element leads?…as John stated earlier, some of these are notorious for a bad element wiping out a regulator…..8 ohms, ok,..6 ohms bad….I can still see what appears to be the wire round hanging on and not unwound,…..time for the litmus test,….

Pat

Where should I put the leads?  On the screws holding the element to the board?

@Rhinoh posted:

Where should I put the leads?  On the screws holding the element to the board?

Yep,…but first do as John stated and check to make sure the screws are tight,….watch as you attempt to tighten the screws if they’re loose. The screw can try and drag the element lead and twist it if you’re not careful, and beings yours is nice and crispy, it could crunch it up,….so just try and snug up the screws good, but don’t give it 3 grunts ….in fact, nothing gets 3 grunts,….maybe a 1/4 grunt at most,….😝😝😝

Pat

I'd give serious consideration to replacing the resistor and cleaning up the PCB before you put it back together.

Don’t have time to read all posts above. Lol.
This particular unit was known for Over heating and toasting smoke Regulators. I would install a new Reg, 8 ohm resistor, batting and if PCB is chard  i would replace it too.

Alex

I would like to thank everyone for all of their help and advice. The loco is smoking great.  8 ohms across the resistor. Cleaned up the board and the smoke unit. Replaced the charred batting that had fused itself to the resistor and became like hard black plastic. Tightened the resistor screws and tested the steamer. Added some smoke fluid and all good.

Love a happy ending, and being a cheap solution is even better.

Pete

Nice!….now you’re armed with the diag procedure, and you know how it works……result!…..gotta love it!…

Pat