Lionel Alco S-2 sounds bad

I think the speaker in that one is a tiny flat one in the tank.  I don't know that a "better" speaker will fit, which is probably why the sounds is somewhat sub-standard.

It's possible that a higher quality small speaker might help, but it's a tight fit.  If the top of the tank isn't totally sealed, you might try that to see if it improves the bass response a bit.

Thanks for the advice John, I will give it a shot.  15 years ago we probably thought the sound was really good, maybe we are just spoiled now by SuperBass and all the gizmos Lionel has under the hood. 

Cadillac Mike posted:

Q1: Is there any way to enhance the sound on the first production (2002 Western Pacific) Lionel Alco S-2?  She runs great but the sound seems a bit "tinny" to me.  Maybe a better speaker?

Q2: What is better for slow speed switching- Lionel Legacy NW-2 or S-2?  Both seem to be great locomotives?

Mike

The NW-2 is geared lower for low speed switching, runs so well! https://www.youtube.com/watch?...DtqGc7iVE&t=113s

Thanks Matt.  I have a Legacy NW-2 (SP) but not the latest Alco S-2 so I was wondering.  That old Alco with Odyssey creeps along at 1 scale mph or less when programming it to 128 speed steps through my TMCC base L and MTH TIU/ handheld.  I think Lionel did a great job with these locomotives by using the tried and true horizontal motor, fixed pilots and speed control.  They are so much fun to operate!

They sure are. The fixed pilots are a nice feature in addition to smoke. The thing just crawls, I love it. 

"I think Lionel did a great job with these locomotives by using the tried and true horizontal motor..."

Mine was arguably mechanically the worst locomotive I have ever owned. The drive train (gearboxes) self-destructed after an hour or so of use - after "enduring" pulling 2 - 3 cars around at a time. New loco. I managed to get some replacement parts from Lionel and fixed it - when it did the same thing after 30 seconds of running. Yes, I know what I'm doing.

It almost made an Alco-shaped hole in my wall, but I threw (literally) the junker in a box, and when I feel like doing it  - if, after 2 years maybe I'm not still pi**ed about it - I am turning it into a dummy by removing the drive train. I was going to paint it all along anyway.

If I get another S-2 it will be an MTH with vertical can motors. This design runs just as well. Lionel's S-2 is the second loco (a made-for 3-rail brass diesel) with the single motor/driveshaft design that has failed me. 

D500, sorry to hear you had a bad experience with the Lionel Alco S-2.  I just purchased the MTH Strasburg 44 tonner. Never mind the wrong red color on the body (tuscan instead of fire engine), it stalls on Lionel tubular 072 turnouts at low speed.  By low speed I mean anything under 7 scale mph so it really does not do the job I was hoping it would in my yards and industries.  The locomotive looks great and can easily be modified with a fixed pilot but I have to solve the stalling issue.  Looks like it may be the traction tires acting as insulators on 4 of the 8 wheels leaving only the front set of wheels on both trucks to act as pickups.  After comparison, I have to say the horizontal motor Lionel model is the better of the two. 

Happy Railroading!

Mike

I don't believe it's the wheels, but rather the spacing of the two center rail roller pickups.  My MTH 44-tonner has the same issue, and I've found when it stalls that the rollers are aligned with dead spots on the switches.  Why these companies design these small units without the dual roller assemblies escapes me!  It would also make sense not to equip them with traction tires, or at least only on one truck.  They're not designed to haul 30 cars, it's a switcher!

I was thinking it had to be one of the two, good to know there is someone else out there with the same issue.  Thanks John.  Those little 44 tonners sure are nice looking though. I want to fix this issue so I can truly enjoy mine!

My MTH Milwaukee Road 44-tonner (Phase 1c version), which I purchased a year ago, stalls heading into a Lionel tubular-rail turnout at home, just like John and Mike describe. But my MTH U.S. Army 44-tonner, which was just released and I purchased last week, does not.

The Army version is technically a different model (of a later GE design), but appears to be otherwise identical in terms of the chassis design.

I haven’t figured out why one stalls and the other doesn’t yet.

Mine is the Strasburg version which I believe just came out a few weeks ago so I am going to assume it is also the very latest MTH model?  I know Mr. Muffins Trains literally just got his shipment in so that is my story and I am sticking to it. 

Jim R. posted:

My MTH Milwaukee Road 44-tonner (Phase 1c version), which I purchased a year ago, stalls heading into a Lionel tubular-rail turnout at home, just like John and Mike describe. But my MTH U.S. Army 44-tonner, which was just released and I purchased last week, does not.

The Army version is technically a different model (of a later GE design), but appears to be otherwise identical in terms of the chassis design.

I haven’t figured out why one stalls and the other doesn’t yet.

Are the rubber tires on the same axles of both locomotives? Same pick-up assy? A side by side underframe image?

I have had a few of these (Chessie, LV, B&O, had a ATSF and WP) When they work theyre great... when not... they are some of the toughest to work on, right up there with Atlas RS1's

The Atlas switchers are a giant PITA to work on, at least IMO.  Much of the Atlas stuff appears to be designed never to be disassembled.

Here’s an image of the underside of my two MTH 44-tonners — 20-20719-1 (Milwaukee Road phase 1c) and 20-20874-1 (U.S. Army later phase).

Identical. Traction tires on inner wheels (both driven). Same spacing of pickups. (I had to adjust the pickup shoe bracket on the Army version because the rollers weren’t rolling. The brackets were pinching the rollers.)

Note, the Milwaukee Road unit sparks and stalls in forward through the switch point but runs fine through the switch in the same direction in reverse. I wonder if the plastic insulators on the pickup rollers are the issue. If one roller is slightly askew, it might be enough to interrupt power at slow speeds to cause it to arc and stall.

By the way, I called MTH recently to confirm how many separate pieces make up the body of the all diecast 44-tonner. Both hoods are separate components, as is the cab. All three are held together by screws so they can be removed like they’re one piece. So anyone interested in custom painting these units can break them down, if the project warrants it.

Be forewarned, though. Those hoods don’t leave a lot of space inside. Reassembly can be tricky.