Lionel Century Club Engines: Diamonds in the rough?

When the first Century Club existed, I believe Lionel said something to the effect that they would be the pinnacle of technology, with the look and feel of the models they were representing.

 

I was a member, but as it turned out, I didn't buy any engines.

 

And yet the instant $$$ collector series mentality remains.

Well mother always said if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all.  Seems perfect for this situation and product line.

-Greg

Diamond?...... Rough? IMO the biggest and roughest diamond is arguably the Niagara from the Century Club II offerings.

 

The $1000 price tag seems/ed fair for a large northern that could/should have been the same caliber although TMCC, as the legacy 844.

 

I get SO tempted to grab one, they look and sound awesome with the exception of the dated 2 chuffs per driver revolution.

 

Then I'm reminded by the  overly affordable average secondary market price of $500 or less. The plastic gears, plastic driveshaft, pitting drivers, the steel "tires" on the drivers fall off, faulty chuff switch, and last but least anemic smoke production, stifle my desire to get one.

 

Without a doubt a loco that could seriously benefit in a legacy reincarnation  with all of the flaws fixed. I'd be the first one on the BTO list.

 

 

 

quote:

And yet the instant $$$ collector series mentality remains.

 

Like it or not, Lionel would not exist if they weren't leveraging people's collector series mentality. Perfect examples are the new "6464" boxcars, mint cars, and the PWC series.

 

Did some people buy the Century Club pieces as investments? I think so. Too bad for them. I think all of the Century Club pieces generally sell for considerably less than the issue price, when in MINT condition

I bought my first Century Club engine about three years ago. The collector mentality is alive and well with me, as I have two more of the engines now and am actively looking for the other two. I have also bought the boxcar for each of the engines I have. 

 

I agree with the original poster that the turbine is a great engine for the price. I think I paid just a little more than he did, and I still feel it is a bargain.

 

J White

 

I bought them all new.  No collector mentality here.  I just liked the engines.  If we all had a crystal ball back then I'm sure we would have waited for the pricing to come down  Same could be said about anything.  I bought them because I was going to run them and enjoy them.  I still do.

 

So much for your collector mentality.

quote:

 I bought them because I was going to run them and enjoy them.  I still do.

 

I hope you didn't take my post negatively.
Collector or operator, as far as I am concerned, the only reason to buy any trains is for enjoyment.
Some people enjoy running their trains.

Others enjoy just owning them.

I have always thought the Century Club engines were a bit of an odd grouping. First you have the post war remakes with their Pulmore motors, followed by the scale Niagara and ESE Hudson along with the PT tender. Most collectables follow a theme. Not sure I get this theme unless it was the inclusion of the display cases.

 

As for the nits with the Niagara, most flaws are easily fixed for little money like metal U joints on the bay for a couple of bucks. Still working on metal replacement gears though.

 

Pete

 

 

quote:

I have always thought the Century Club engines were a bit of an odd grouping. First you have the post war remakes with their Pulmore motors, followed by the scale Niagara and ESE Hudson along with the PT tender. Most collectables follow a theme. Not sure I get this theme unless it was the inclusion of the display cases.

 

There were two Century Clubs.
The engines in the first Century Club were all modernized versions of Postwar engines. 

There was a Hudson, Berkshire, F3, Turbine, and GG-1. Additions were promised, but all they ever offered were boxcars to match the engines.

The other items mentioned must have been from Century Club II.

I didn't join Century Club II and didn'f follow what was offered.
Century Club I was not what I hoped it would be. Fool me once.......

Century Club 1 offerings.

 

From L to R...Hudson, F3, GG1, Berk, and Turbine.  I picked up the boxcars at York for $20 each.

 

 

I agree.

I also feel these engines were and are still collectors items, great runners, and feel anyone who bought them, like yourself made a great choice.

 

In fact, I think they are worth much more than what they are going for.

Heavy well made engines, that are made in the USA, with maybe the exception being the Niagara with its poor parts.

 

I actually purchased my S-2 after seeing your video Marty.

Also, purchased my 2 PWC B-Units with the Fatboy speakers after seeing your video.

 

I am also thinking about buying the tender as well.

 

Did Lionel ever release Century Club passenger cars?

quote:

I would like to eventually get the other tender for my 671.

 

I see them on EBay fairly frequently.

 

Once in a while I look for Century Club stuff there.
I have thought about picking up some of the engines, but with only a few exceptions, I only have locomotives with mechanical e-units. For me, this makes a good cut off for my collecting.
I did get the early bird boxcar, and I purchased the five boxcars that match the engines. I think I have a poster too.

 

I view these Century Club engines as the "True" Post War Celebration product as well.

More so than the actual PWC engines.

It is almost like they took an actual vintage Lionel engine and upgraded it with TMCC.

I do not feel the same way about my PWC's because they were not made in the USA.

 

How can something be a Post War Celebration when it is made in China.

T

ell you what...if Lionel re-issued the Century Club as Century Club III, but with the quality of the S-2 Turbine, I would buy them at full price.

One of the great things about a Pullmor motor, is that you can actually fix them.

Good luck with a can motor.

 

Also, with help from other forum members who suggested frequent power lock on's to avoid low voltage areas on my layout, and setting "Stall" with my Legacy hand held.

Even with the Pullmor, I can go pretty slow with my S-2.

I have only one of the engines, the CCll NYC Empire State Express Hudson. I found one NIB about 4 years ago, along with the optional PT tender. It is one of my favorite engines. It's a great running and looking engine.

Another view of the CC I engines.  Every one a good runner and a good remake of their Postwar brethern.  With the Berk, NYC Hudson and F3s I broke from my PRR by Lionel focus.

 

I only bought one of the CC II engine offerings and it's a winner in the multi powered and great sounding PRR Sharks. 

 

 

Nice Display!

Is the Berkshire the same proportion in size as the S-2?

Obviously the Hudson is scale.

I like that PRR S-2 Tender!

I Joined Both Century Clubs for Fun...I have the engines on shelves in their Display cases.

The M10000 Set with extra cars is still new in the boxes.  My favorite is The TrainMasters FM'S. My reason for Century Club 1 was getting back into the hobby with nice newer versions of the Post War Locomotives....Wow...I bought Century Club 2 for the newer versions. In my opinion, these are very nice quality products, No Regrets.  I also purchased all of the by products, like Cars, shirts, coffee mugs, Etc...When I do sell it all, I would like to sell it all together....Happy Railroading....

 

There may have been a few standard offerings intended to go with the Century Club engines, though I don't think they were specifically marketed that way (there was no "perfect for your Century Club xxxx" text), and I don't think each engine has a complementary set. 

 

I only have a 4 pack of traditional Nickel Plate rolling stock (2 TOFCs, Caboose, and I think a Boxcar) that I think was intended for the Berk.

 

There was a set of PRR Madison cars cataloged around the same time that I think was meant for the GG-1, but I am not sure if they ever were produced.  There might have been an offering for the S-2, but I do not know what it is off the top of my head.  (these 3 may have been on the same catalog page from probably 1998 or 1999 sometime)  I don't think there were any obvious intended sets to go with the NYC F-3s or the Hudson.

 

For CCII, the M10000 was of course it's own Passenger set.  Also the ESE Hudson had a set of 7 cars (via the standard (at that time) 4 pack, 2 pack, and Stationsounds Diner car).

 

-Dave

There was a Century Club II Pennsylvania Coal Train Set (4 diecast hoppers) to go with the PRR Sharknose engines. I have this set as well the Berk and the Hudson. Great looking set!

I have all of the first series. Bought them all under 300 a piece over the past few years. My latest was the turbine and I just picked up the extra tender. It runs perfect. The Berk, F3 and Hudson works just as well. The GG1 is another story. It is the worst out of them all. I have had to literally take it apart and rebuild it. The motors were rough, the TMCC didn't always respond and the Railsounds were not performing well. After a total rebuild, it FINALLY runs correctly.

 

I remember Lionel stating when these came out, they would never issue them again. Funny that, since they reintroduced the F3's for the Conventional Classics. If your into Postwar and the classics like me, These are well worth obtaining.

 

 

Each of the CCII offerings did have cars offered to go with them (aside from the M10000, which was a whole set, so it just had an add-on coach).

 

The Niagara had the Milk Train and  the FM's had a set of PS-1 Boxcars.  All others have already been mentioned I think.

 

For some, there were separate sale (not restricted to Century Club 2 purchasers) add-ons as well.  The NYC Milk cars (3 extras, if I recall) were an obvious add-on for that set, and I've heard others suggest there are die cast offset hoppers with road names that make sense to go with the Sharks.  I would guess if you look into PS-1s, there are probably ones that would go well with the set sold to go with the FMs as well.

 

-Dave

To a degree you could say they never did re-issue them.

As I think the PWC's are made in China, where as the Century Club is made in USA.

 

Thanks for letting me know about that GG1.

I am going to buy the Berk and Hudson, and will probably retire my GG1 that came with the congressional set and just buy a MTH PS3 GG1 for $249 to replace it.

When you think about it, with Lionel you have to spend another $199-350 to buy a station sounds diner for station announcements.

When you buy an MTH engine, they already come with station announcements or freight depending on the engine.

How does the CC F3 compare to the Postwar F3?

 

 

Not sure if this applies to the Collectors Club GG1 but Lionels Conventional Classic GG1 came with a truck washer located in the wrong place. Instead of between the truck and frame it was located above the frame. This allowed the flanges to rub on the frame making the motors run hot and in some cases burning out the E Unit. Relocating the washer solved the problem. Easy, cheap fix, but turned off a lot of people until the problem was found.

 

Pete

Chipset, what was wrong with your Congressional GG1? I have had no issues with mine, or the one that came with my Majestic PWC set. In fact, my Conventional Classic one, is identical to the Century GG1. And that too, I have had no issues with, but the E unit does get hot quick.

 

 

 

Good to Know Pete, I will have to look at mine. I ran my Conventional Classics GG1 a few times, and it was very smooth, the heat shield on top of the electronics did get very hot though. I know there was an article someone posted on this forum, about adding an addition heat shield from parts you can get from radio shack,

Mark, before someone posted about the fix I had already burned out the E unit on mine.

I ended up installing a small 1 inch 12 volt fan taken from a computer video board to cool it. The only place for air to get into these is through the windows so its pretty hostile envirnment for the electronics especially those driving high current Pulmores.

I may have a photo somewhere.

Pete

My GG1 from the PWC set Majestic Freight is the worst running engine I have as well.  It never has been perfect.  I sent it back to Lionel once I believe, but it's never been right.  It has double pullmors and it just seems like they tried to jam too much stuff under the shell.  I have four other PWC sets that I love.  A Hudson set, the F3 Wabash set, a Trainmaster set and the Marines missile launch set.  All are pullmor powered and run great, especially smooth is the Wabash F3, which you are having trouble with.  Honestly, I think Lionel had some off years in quality during this period due to management changes etc.  You may have just got unlucky with the motors you got in the engines that are giving you trouble. Overall, I consider the quality in these sets to be a bit above the standard offerings at the time.  Most of the couplers actually uncouple on a Gargraves uncoupling track for example.  The connection with postwar styling appeals to me as well.

I have all the PWC sets, and none of them gave me issues. Only the Century Club GG1.

As for the Conventional Classics, the issues are the E unit from the GG1 and the Motor in the Orbitor Alco was totally tough. I had to rebuild the entire motor and add a washer and a bearing ball to get that engine working right. Got the parts from Chuck Sartor here on the forum. 

 

I think they have off years on all their products at some point :-)

It just does not seem to run as good as that Century Club S-2.

Was very sensitive to areas of the track that the S-2 was not and it looks like the trucks are hanging on by a thread.

I might have to post a video to show you those trucks.

Also, took a long time to break in, and was always conking out and shorting my track.

It does seem to be much better now, after I added more power drops.

I still prefer the MTH GG1 w/PS3 as it cost less and performs perfect.

What I did with all my PWC and CC GG1's was replace the 4 trailing truck wheels with postwar wheels and axles. They lock into the truck, and do not bounce around like the needle point ones. HUGE difference when going through the 022 and 072 switches.

Begin thread drift.

Applies to Conventional Classic GG1, not sure if it applies to any others.

 

I couldn't find pics of the fan installation but did find pics of the Motor driver/AC E unit.

The first pic shows the supplied heat sink. Due to poor fit it does not transfer heat well from one side. The second pic is of a heat sink I made with more aluminum, better fit, and added heat sink.

 

 

 

 

End Thread drift.

 

Pete