Lionel Commodore Vanderbilt

They look like the signature two-tone gray of the NYC. Commodore Vanderbilt 777 would not have carried those cars I don't think; I believe these are diesel-era designs. Pullman green heavyweights are more period correct.

The cars in this set were to be done in the postwar colors. The set was cancelled by Lionel and not made. The prototypes originally ran on the 1938 20th Century Limited but were refurbished and repainted when the 1948 20th Century Limited equipment was delivered. This equipment was used on the Postwar Commodore Vanderbilt train which was being hauled by E-7s and Alco PAs . These were the cars Lionel intended to manufacture but never did.

The 777 Commodore Vanderbilt Steam loco represented New York Centrals first attempt at streamlining. when the Dreyfus J-3 s were delivered in 1938 the Commodore Vanderbilt steam engine was re streamlined in the Dreyfus styling. In the Postwar period, it was De-streamlined.  This engine #777 would be appropriate with the Pullman Green Heavyweight cars that Lionel made for this engine. There were a total of 10 cars released in a basic 4 car set and various 2 car add on sets starting in 1996.

Nick and LIRR Steamer,

Thanks for the information.  I knew the "777" pulled the green heavyweights, but was not sure about the streamlines as cataloged by Lionel.

George

In the new catalog is appears Lionel are re-running these pullman green cars and adding a Station Sounds diner. The catalog lists 7 cars total. This may be partially a response to the low volume business in passenger cars that Scott Mann has been building up the past couple years, though Lionel and Third Rail compete mostly for different segments of the business.

I'm looking into a 1996 Commodore, can any comment on the sights, sounds and/or performance of this engine?  I think it's a great looking engine, except that I believe the prototype was a little darker grey, more of a black metal flake than a silver.  I have plenty of green heavyweights to pull behind it, but I'm leaning towards the K-Line Pacemaker heavyweights with its reversed light gray body / dark gray stripe with white trim, it the silver is close to the light gray.

Thanks for your help.

Sincerely,

Mario

I have the 1996 Lionel Commodore Vandy in its erroneous silver livery.  Its a great looking engine with a beautiful sounding whistle but it is not a good puller.  It literally crawls with four heavyweights.  Still, I like the engine.

Thanks, OKHIKER for the insight.

Do you think its because it is too light of an engine and do you think more weight could help, or is it because the motor is maxxed out?

This may mean the difference between a runner and a shelf queen.

PS- Does it come with the extra pilot truck with scales wheels?

Thanks,

Mario

Hi Mario. We had this locomotive when it first came out and really liked it. Had one of the nicest deep-throated whistles at the time which STILL sounds good today.

As mentioned, it was not a good puller (neither was our 700E -  both with a PullMor) and had only one chuff per revolution.

I've heard of having it remotored with a can motor and new sound could be added for a great runner. Lionel eventually re released it in a better shade of gray as well as a red and a blue model. The later issues also had wireless tethers I believe.

They should produce a Legacy model sometime...

Thanks, Sam...

We there a kit to convert the Pullmor motor to can motors?  Isn't that what Williams does when they bring out their engines?

How about changing the chuffs per rotation?

Thanks,

Mario

Yes, I believe a fella named Frank Timko (sp?) offers that service.

Re: the chuffs, hopefully someone will chine in here with how to do that. Something about adding a magnet to the axle of the tender?

Not a good smoker either.

Ours did not come with a scale pilot truck but they were available...

We paid almost $900 for ours in 1996/7 but they can be had for well under $400 if you watch for them.

Just got a nice used one last week; the silver is too light, of course, and it is a Pullmor,

unfortunately, but it is a nice model and built like a tank. Mine is in good shape but well

run in - which always helps Pullmor performance.

- Oddly, I find it to be a very decent puller (TMCC; using a 135-watt brick) and a steady runner (I have no grades) for an AC-motor loco. Conventionally I can see it being a bit

of a dog.

- the chuff-rate is poor (2 per revolution would be adequate, if not accurate), but the sound is good. One day I'll see what I can do about that.

- the J1e 5344 (the locomotive underneath) Commodore pulled green heavyweights before it was re-streamlined in the Dreyfuss (J3a Century) style.

It is a high-quality and accurate model, built well, and would be worth converting

it to a can motor/cruise technology (I've seen one on YouTube with a can and Proto-

sound-2). I got mine for a hair over $300.00. Score. Mine runs well enough that I

plan to leave it "Pullmored". 

(Why some Pullmor locos run so much better than others, I do not know. I bought an

N&W "J" Warhorse set years ago, modified the little 4-8-4 to make it a "near-scale" K2 4-8-2, scratchbuilt a new tender body...it looks pretty darn convincing as a Mountain...but

it runs so poorly (fast-slow-fast...) that, after all that work, it just sits on a shelf. I've

seen another loco of this type run, and it was poor, also.)

I have a copy of the more protoypical darker gunmetal gray version and recommend looking for that one rather than the first issue silver. The problem is that one only rarely sees the gunmetal version for sale as it appears to be the "keeper" of the group. I see the the odd red and blue versions or  the weathered versions for sale on the boards far more often even than the gunmetal second issue version. The gunmetal is the winner if you care about authentic paint scheme. They all are the same mechanically and I concur about the still nice sound of the CV.

There is also a 'psychedelic' version too!

Peter - does yours have the wireless tether perchance?

I had the first issue back in '96 era and it had a great whistle. I also had the 10 passenger cars to go with it but you could not run them. When you had all ten cars on, the transformer pulled 12-13 amps which of course pop the breaker. With 3 bulbs in each car at 5 watts each you now know why it pulled so many amps. I usually pulled 5-6 cars on a normal run. I think I may look one up and convert it to can motors and DCS.

Some of these run well and some of them require 20 volts or more to really run. Mine is/was one of the latter.

I sent the old motor to Timko and he made a new mount for a can motor. Then I put a Cruise Commander from electric railroad in the loco and hooked that to the original sound system in the tender. A magnet on a tender wheel and a reed switch on the tender truck delivered two chuffs per revolution.

Runs great and sounds great.

Thinking that the new can motor was a bit undersized, I also put a fan in the cab blowing on the motor, but the motor doesn't even try to get hot. The loco's gear box has something like a 19 to 1 gear ratio, which is probably why it would not run fast with the original motor, but runs and pulls great with the can motor.

Also, one of the main rods was binding because it was too thick at the eccentric crank. Some work with a file fixed that.

It's a great runner now. Too bad about the color, though.

C. Sam - the 18063 gunmetal CV does have the wireless tether and is therefore dead easy to get on track. THis thread has been interesting, especially about the different ways to make the CV run better.

Has anyone tried re-lighting those pullman green Lionel cars with low power LED lighting strips like the ones from Sunset? Perhaps this would lower the power draw enough to help them run better.

Hi Gene

My understanding is that none of the cars for the set and add ons were made by Lionel. I had a preorder for the set and add ons along with the E-7 ABA . I received notification that Lionel cancelled the cars . I subsequently cancelled the E7 set when Lionels samples shown at York were done in Black and Grey Lightning stripes which were the freight colors. It was a disappointment as I think the cars would have been quite nice. I had compared the catalog illustrations to photos of the prototype cars and it seemed to me that Lionel's details and window arrangements were very close to the prototypes. 

It would be nice if Lionel would release a Legacy Commodore in the right color and the cars too with current technology. It's such a unique historical piece with a local connection to Asheville NC. For any of you who have never been through the Biltmore House it is definitely worth the trip here. Largest private home in America and sits on several hundred acres of beautiful property with 360 degree views of the western Appalachians. This house itself is truly amazing and the photos and account of its construction is something to see for yourself.

George Vanderbilt was 'Commodore's' grandson and they were possibly the wealthiest family in the world at the time. It took 5 or 6 years to build the home and they opened it to the world's elite 'movers and shakers' of the day. The materials were brought in by rail (no surprise here) and although the tracks were removed years ago, there is talk of the family running a line into Asheville connecting with NS for future excursions from Asheville to the Biltmore. We're looking forward to that if it comes to fruition!

An invite to any of you who happen to venture to these beautiful mountains this summer or fall - please consider this an invitation to come see the A.T.& S.F. before we move. There is a lot of motorcycle activity here and many motels are 'biker friendly'. It's arguably the best place to ride in America with the The Blue Ridge Parkway and the legendary 'Tail of the Dragon' relatively near-by. You will enjoy the scenery and especially the weather!

I ran all 10 cars behind my Lionel Allegheny a while back, and had no power issues. I do have a modern ZW with two 180 watt bricks and Legacy control.

How Lionel ever thought their CV could pull those 10 cars though is beyond me.

Does anyone think that the CV Hudson's Pullmor could pull more if there was more weight in the engine?

Looks like I've got a NIB one coming and I'm hesitant to start making irreversible changes right off the bat...

No pun intended...

Thanks,

Mario

I was able to run the CV with all 10 cars, I do not remember the wheels slipping but it just didn't have power. We were using the club's Z4000, it moved, but very slowly

Still love the engine, the whistle is the best,  but not sure if it's worth the $$ to have a new motor put in and to fix the 1 chuff per revolution.

Mario, it doesn't seem to be a weight issue but more a 'torque issue' or lack there of. Our 700E suffered from a similar problem trying to pull the original K-Line heavyweights. I had all 8 but the locomotive couldn't pull more than 4 if I remember correctly. It didn't spin the wheels either, it just sat there and hummed...   Otherwise, it performed admirably with a shorter consist.

Thanks, Chris and Sam,

I'm thinking that the first thing to do is get it broken in (Drive it like you stole it, right?) and see what it'll pull...

I'm thinking 8-10 cars would be my normal, with 2-3 head end express cars, and 6-9 K-Line heavyweights... and I'm not a speed demon, and in fact the closer to prototype speeds (slower) is better.

I can't wait!  This is the fun part... play, experiment, modify, play some more...

Thanks,

Mario

I see that that a NIB 1996 silver CV Hudson is one for sale here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221052965413?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1431.l2649

Maybe i'll have to pick it up?  Can't beat a new engine to break in the way I want to... (long and fairly fast, with a light load to break in the Pullmor correctly).

Thanks,

Mario