Does anyone know if Lionel plans on doing anymore of the Conventional Classics sets??
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Sure wish they would have brought back the 773 Hudson and three madison cars. Oh well maybe one day
The affordable conventional engine and rolling stock market is dominated by Williams and perhaps soon to be Menard's . It appears that Lionel wants to play in the starter set and higher end market. I would guess that we will not see anymore conventional engines from Lionel, but I've been wrong before.
I think Lionel is not making anymore AC motors which I imagine that would eliminate the conventional classic line.
I suspect not but who knows? There have been many threads about these in the past from some of the conventional and PW fans out there who were hoping the CC line would continue (or start back up I should say). I've seen several posts here through the years that listed suggested locos that never got made the first time around.
Not looking promising but never say never.
I think Lionel has milked that interest about as much as they could. Don't expect much in the way of postwar remakes going forward; maybe an isolated instance now and then. They can bring back the Santa Fe F-3's and sell them anytime, for instance.
What was the last CC set? Oribitor?
rick king posted:Sure wish they would have brought back the 773 Hudson and three madison cars. Oh well maybe one day
Rick
you can find occasional ebay listings of the Postwar Celebration Series 773 and it is a stellar remake. You can also find the CC maroon madison sets on ebay to complete the set.
I think L could come up with a "modern" CC with good DC motors. Williams in a sense did it.
graz posted:rick king posted:Sure wish they would have brought back the 773 Hudson and three madison cars. Oh well maybe one day
Rick
you can find occasional ebay listings of the Postwar Celebration Series 773 and it is a stellar remake. You can also find the CC maroon madison sets on ebay to complete the set.
True enough. I picked up the 3-car Madison set as a separate sale (from the Conventional Classic Berkshire Set) right here on the forum. Those cars are solid, well made and just look fantastic running behind the loco of your choice.
I for one was a big fan of the Conventional Classics sets. So many memories. I also liked the old AC motors. Lionel seems to be committed to LionChief and LionChief Plus at the low end and BTO as you work your way up. IMHO this will create a void in the market that someone can fill such as Williams did back in the 80s.
rick king posted:Sure wish they would have brought back the 773 Hudson and three madison cars. Oh well maybe one day
A fine route to this combination that is not mentioned above is the Century Club I 773 Hudson in a consist with the phenolic Irvington cars from 1990. All are readily findable, affordable, nicely constructed, and American-made to boot.
Bob
I could piece together a set from whats readily available,but I was wanting the postwar style boxes to...and they could cut cost by keeping it faithful to the original. No electronic whistle & bell just an air whistle. But I'm a purist
When the Conventional Classics first came out, Post War was still somewhat pricey. Now that prices have plummeted and pristine examples coming up for sale why not just get actual Post War, especially if you want AC motors? About the only items still at nosebleed prices are the 773 and few F3s and then only if you need the Pulmores. Williams has the DC motored versions covered on those.
Pete
In the 2016 Signature Catalog there was mention of a "postwar inspired" set. Also mentioned was the postwar classic green streamliner passenger cars along with a set of "what if" Alcos decorated in matching green.
Wonder if we'll see these items for 2017 ?
rick king posted:I could piece together a set from whats readily available,but I was wanting the postwar style boxes to...and they could cut cost by keeping it faithful to the original. No electronic whistle & bell just an air whistle. But I'm a purist
I hear ya. However, a Conventional Classic reissue is likely to have an electronic whistle and bell, anyway. The Con. Class. Berks do, if I recall correctly. I look upon 'Made in the USA' as "more pure" than Chinese-assembled, but to each their own. And, as mentioned above, originals would be the purest.
Have fun.
Bob
The last PW Conventional Classics Berkshire from the 2129WS set offered in 2011 had odd looking drivers IMO. Very Chinese looking with the thick shiny driver treads...not the (non-chromed) polished nickel look of previous thin versions of the same.
I preferred the modern PWC packaging to the repro CC packaging. The wrap and tight fit boxes never could rarely be unpacked without damage.
You know, there are reproduction boxes made for some. The ones I saw have the same look vs being straight up copies.
ed h posted:In the 2016 Signature Catalog there was mention of a "postwar inspired" set. Also mentioned was the postwar classic green streamliner passenger cars along with a set of "what if" Alcos decorated in matching green.
Wonder if we'll see these items for 2017 ?
Yes! Will be watching for these after the "tease" by Lionel. I'd probably spring for multiple sets of the 2400 series green cars and would love to see a PW-like set.
Outside of debuting in 1948 the only re-issues of the green 2400 cars was in the early 90's great Lake Express Service Station set. I have the for cars and are pretty nice
i wish they did MPC reruns like they did postwar
i would like some more conventional pre CSX stuff like chessie system like the chesapeake flyer set i used to have
johnstrains posted:ed h posted:In the 2016 Signature Catalog there was mention of a "postwar inspired" set. Also mentioned was the postwar classic green streamliner passenger cars along with a set of "what if" Alcos decorated in matching green.
Wonder if we'll see these items for 2017 ?
Yes! Will be watching for these after the "tease" by Lionel. I'd probably spring for multiple sets of the 2400 series green cars and would love to see a PW-like set.
I asked Lionel what happened after the Signature catalog mentioned that set. They said they pulled it out at the last minute because a quote hadn't come back from their contract manufacturer and that it would probably be in Volume 2. We weren't meant to see it in the introduction letter. Anyway, it never showed up again and I'm guessing it got scrapped just like all the other nostalgia items including the Pullmor motor.
GregR posted:johnstrains posted:ed h posted:In the 2016 Signature Catalog there was mention of a "postwar inspired" set. Also mentioned was the postwar classic green streamliner passenger cars along with a set of "what if" Alcos decorated in matching green.
Wonder if we'll see these items for 2017 ?
Yes! Will be watching for these after the "tease" by Lionel. I'd probably spring for multiple sets of the 2400 series green cars and would love to see a PW-like set.
I asked Lionel what happened after the Signature catalog mentioned that set. They said they pulled it out at the last minute because a quote hadn't come back from their contract manufacturer and that it would probably be in Volume 2. We weren't meant to see it in the introduction letter. Anyway, it never showed up again and I'm guessing it got scrapped just like all the other nostalgia items including the Pullmor motor.
Hmm. Thanks for that info and let's hope something PW-inspired eventually shows up.
I had a thought on the 2400 series green cars as it relates to a relatively recent Lionel release. These should be the same production types as the passenger cars made for the Conventional Classics UP Anniversary Set. Three cars, same molds, just paint 'em green with the yellow striping. C'mon Lionel.
It's sad to see all the postwar being phased out. They think there is no market for them. Well I'm not into scale models. Don't get me wrong they are great for the people into that, but I like the more simple conventional items
I'm struggling with your definition of being a 'purist'. You lost me there. There are plenty of 'simple conventional' items to be had. Real postwar stuff. You don't have to buy a TMCC equipped remake and then rue the fact it isn't conventional.
William I couldnt spot your "purist" reference to see who and what you refered to there.
Plenty of simple, USED items are available. But you dont think we might like something actally new on occasion too¿ Or is something actually new that is cheap via simplicity, so out of fashion now we shouldnt bemoan it not still existing?
Ok to stick it to us with a can motor I guess...sort of... but leaving no choice but paying all the extra for command and sound too?
There is where you lose many of us. Its basically a hundred bucks or more in our cost, spent on electronics that go to waste. Our dollars paying a large chunk for your boards being only slightly cheaper, if at all, is all I see. Most would not be quibbling if it was a twenty to fifty dollar cost either.
Use the Mc-value scale to put it in another perspective. Would you order a $4 Big Mac and scrape everything off so you have a plain burger, or would you just want to be able to order a plain $1 burger? Even at $3 youd want it avaible plain, feel you got charged fairly, and maybe now you want to buy fries(cars) or a pie (accessory) with the extra buck.
Even more frustrating is watching so many working systems gutted for new ones so regularly anyhow. Few if any conventional fans have issues with CC being available in, or for, YOUR trains. We dont need it, so dont want to pay for it. Ie thats a loss of a long term hobby members supporting the mfgs, and at least in theory, keeping your chassis price that much lower,just for not promoting "getting what you pay for" in a more balanced way.
The only sunshine of command for me is USED conventional IS getting easier to find. But like I said, its used; new is nice too 
Well said!!! I dont want a big Mac I want the plain burger!! By purist I mean I want a re-issued postwar set to be as close to original as possible. A post war set never had TMCC so I don't want it! It was not there in the 1950's so don't stick it in now. The conventional classic sets were pretty close to the originals. And as you said Adriatic I want NEW I don't want to buy and try and piece together a postwar set with whats out ther. I just purchased the 2010 LCCA Burlington 1958 re-issue passenger set. But it has TMCC !! it never had it so why add it??? That is what I mean by purist. They added bell & horn to that the original set never had but I can live with that being they had horns & whistles in the 50's. I'm not bashing TMCC but if the postwar sets never had them why add it????
rick king posted:Well said!!! I dont want a big Mac I want the plain burger!! By purist I mean I want a re-issued postwar set to be as close to original as possible. A post war set never had TMCC so I don't want it! It was not there in the 1950's so don't stick it in now. The conventional classic sets were pretty close to the originals. And as you said Adriatic I want NEW I don't want to buy and try and piece together a postwar set with whats out ther. I just purchased the 2010 LCCA Burlington 1958 re-issue passenger set. But it has TMCC !! it never had it so why add it??? That is what I mean by purist. They added bell & horn to that the original set never had but I can live with that being they had horns & whistles in the 50's. I'm not bashing TMCC but if the postwar sets never had them why add it????
I agree 100%, but I fear you and I are the minorities. Air whistles and the like are cool with me.
WBB is also adding prime mover sounds to their conventional engines. Not to fond of that either
Would like the green 2400 series passenger cars with a PW Turbine remade with a can motor and LionChief.
I would hope that any future remakes respect the importance of conventional control and AC open frame motors to the fidelity of the postwar style operating experience. More importantly, I certainly hope that current and future leaders at Lionel can develop a respect for the role of the company's heritage in the product lineup.
They have discontinued 027 & 031 tubular track so that shows the direction of the products being sold. Not much hope for postwar conventional sets I think in the future. I eventually the "toy" train industry will be killed off with astronomic high price hi-tec stuff.
I was hoping for a Pennsy Turbine and green passenger cars set. I am totally happy with the Berkshire and Madison cars set as well as the RDC set.
To Rick King: Only 3 conventional classics locomotives have TMCC. The 209 New Haven, 208 Santa Fe, and as you said, the 216 Burlington. All 3 are the 027 Alco's of course. All 3 were issued by the LCCA. Then LCCA president Lou Caponi wanted TMCC added to the LCCA issues of the engines for a better value and something different from the standard CC reruns.
Interesting. A "value" that is known PW operators don't want. "Different" but that's what PW operators don't like. Target? PW operators....????
As a guy that knows ads, this seems more like a few "lure products" and a vain attempt at getting PW holdouts into command. I don't remember seeing too many command folks pine for a PW train with command in the last decade or so either.
Value: A vague term of comparison accurate only if you know the scope of what is being compared. That's why it works so well in advertising. (I'm a hard sell, I like facts, not boardroom wow factor advertising. In fact, that throws my guard up strong. A good product sells itself. So tell me about what it does and how it does it, I'll determine its "value". Bargin is a slightly better word, but still a comparison term, though often avoided due to an easier association with cheapness.
I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see the open frame returning. Too much cost in materials alone is a reason for mfgs to poo poo it. The E units used to have other uses outside of trains that helped its status, but phone systems don't use them anymore.
Between building the two again, I think the e unit stands a better chance as an occasional surprise visitor to help give a CC a closer to PW feel. Yes I will miss the harmonies of growling OFrame motors starting, and the solid clack and buzz of the e-unit, but these can be near silent on some old engines too. That tmcc E-33 with pulmor I have is nice, but doesn't quite do the trick. I think if I could only have one of the two, pulmor or e unit, I'd choose the mechanical e unit.
The e unit isn't as costly to make, and provides at least some of the vibration we love along with the delicious clack. The vibration is what most people instictually associate with something powerful. The pull of a geared can motor works fine. Youd think it would be worth a try to run a can off one just to shut us up at least. Coils; still a dime a dozen. A few ounces of steel. A teaspoon of copper. Some plastic bits and a pawl. Likely more expensive than a reverse board to make today; but still, not by very much. So why not try to appeal to my sense of touch, as hard as you try with my eyes and ears since the later has failed somewhat.
The China Syndrome: And we expected this savings in production to last? Lol. Nobody predicted us stuck and unable to produce? Rotf. If those overseas things like autos were so much better, why aren't they still on the road in greater relative % than those built here? We have become a nation of crybabies, only out for #1, that's why.
My views on this are too deeply etched in me to spout much without offending many, but the fall of so many industrial based cities in this country made me say "duh" in the 70s. I also say duh when I see a single mid level exec.with pay nearly equal to 100 "overpaid union employees" too. I say duh when I realise how many out of that exec. pool don't even live in this country. I'm surprised we fell for the whole world economy thing and that we still arent willing to pay our neighbors what we expect ourselves.(for the record, Ive never been in a union, and have done mid-management too [overpaid too])
The only sure way out would cost the consumer for decades: bring it all home, pay the extra till it pans out again, stop selling out your neighbor to save a dime, and stop dreaming about being a country full of stock market executives with the rest of the world working cheaply for us. Talk about pipe dreams.
I don't see that rally happening soon either. We just aren't that smart or united anymore. I do my best to live to my own standards implied above, but it will take a majority of the middle class thru wealthy to wake up and do the same before it would really help, and most don't give a crap anymore as long as they get thiers. (and yep, that's holding back hard on spouting....and has overlapping relevance to the thread on speculation of Menards one day making a cheap engine, but it's here and relevant since China was brought up in a similar way.)
No matter where these items are made, who makes them, sells them, or the final price, the cost difference by including mandatory electronics, seen at the consumer level will exist, and big business will carry on regardless. Ie you can make a bunch of simple items and a billion in profit, or a few complexed and possibly equal that, or both. The market is near always there for both imo, it's a matter of persuing it right.
I can hear the ancient boardroom echos "That Henry, what a fool, another car for the common man has no future, he will sink us"
5:30 and time to prep for the CN holiday train passing by so I'm not going to condense or edit this to cut down on its rambling. Have fun with it.
I really enjoy the Conventional Classics! I almost have them all. Almost every newer scale train I've purchased has been run a few times or sold. They're really neat but I like growl of the old motors, I like trains with personality I guess.
Adriatic - I read your whole post. And as mostly is usual, I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Your ground plane is wired to another level. Keep up the good work. It's entertaining, in a way I might not feel totally comfortable with, but, onward towards the fog brother, tell it like it is...
VistaDomeScott posted:I was hoping for a Pennsy Turbine and green passenger cars set.
Now yer talkin'. Perfect combo. Those would sell! 
William 1 posted:Adriatic - I read your whole post. And as mostly is usual, I have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. Your ground plane is wired to another level. Keep up the good work. It's entertaining, in a way I might not feel totally comfortable with, but, onward towards the fog brother, tell it like it is...
Adriatic posted:
5:30 and time to prep for the CN holiday train passing by so I'm not going to condense or edit this to cut down on its rambling. Have fun with it.
Yes, I'm wired differently, Aspies are. Dyslexic in ways too. come to find out. Never know I may have early onset Alzhiemers on top of it all? I do worry and genetic chances are decent I wont know my name in ten years. Last time you mentioned it, it read well enough outloud to two others here to understand though not perfect ( and they said I was full of crap ). I'm sorry it truely makes you uncomfortable at times, but admitted I knew it was still a ramble for others. "My notes". Thatanytimfour fast sittings..*..that was like four fast sittings, I had fun with it, lol. There are some other health issues that have come into play on occasion too, but here; blood sugar is fine, sleep, fair. Also at the exact same time Im thinkin' about the Menard's thread similarities, risking walking far to a better spot for seeing the CP holiday train (CN is next one), two 140lb dogs wanting to play fight, neighbors dropping off goodies, the possible humpyard on the ho layout across the street, the old Farrah Fawcett poster of by brothers,, answering the phone, and which socks I want to wear.
I can hold two or three conversations at once and remember many of my crib days, 2cnd grade I read at a 1st year college level, 3rd I was reading better and faster than the teachers of the system. But I'm no genius or savant, just different. Shoot right now I can't force Androids copy paste to put those "notes" where they'd at least be in proper order for you either. ,..yea, gotta go; Judge Wapners on
Oh, another note on the nonsensical online: Turning off auto spell and word predictions in an app is no guarantee that an the app will obey. Android can "buggy" and screw things up adding and pulling changing and re-spelling words anywhere, anytime. (←←*Sweet e.g., note that last word did it! A toy OS)
I have all of the CC sets and all of the PWC series sets and single items. This was such a great series. Everything I owned worked perfectly out of the box, and the prices were decent.
There is still more they can do. Like the Milwaukee Road F3's and EP-5's and many more sets with different cars that have not been re introduced yet. I wish they would of continued one of the series.
Although I have several scale engines, cars and sets, I prefer the older toy trains. (PW, MPC, LTI)The new items coming out are nice, but to me that's not what Lionel is.
