Lionel Conventional Operators, Are You Worried?

Just one more thought. Do you think Lionel should offer these new offerings in both the remote and conventional control? Sorta like MTH does with the tinplate traditional or PS3 option?

CarGutZM10,

   Michael in my case I like and run both Command Control & Conventional and I welcome the new engineerng also.  To me this hobby encompasses all the different technology. 

PCRR/Dave

I run both.  I'm not worried.

Aren't the new Lionel remotes only controlling track functions that are redundant in the transformers. I didn't think they were full featured digital command systems.

32 sets are still conventional the polar express comes both ways (page 30).  I do not believe Lionel will drop conventional.

I am not worried.  The new ZW-L, which I will note is a brand new Lionel product and therefore somewhat indicative of where they are going,  runs all my trains better than any conventional control I have ever seen.  I doubt Lionel is going to give up entirely on conventional any time soon.

 

I would no mind using a remote controller like supplied with Remote Thomas, either - I just do not want to go the whole Legacy route.

I have only some sentimental prewar and modern scale command engines. Once i installed legacy everything in between was eliminated. Just the speed control alone in running conventional engines is worth the price.

  In my club the conventional members have never worried even though everything is run through CAB's.

 

Ray Marion

I greatly welcome this feature - inexpensive starter sets that can run in a big, Command enviroment via Command handhelds without having to be upgraded is sure to be a homerun with everyone.

Running conventional and started in 1987, presntly have thirty two engines, but have not bought a Lional or MTH engine in 15 years.

Not really worried.  My Lionel purchases will come from the Signature catalog and most of those will be the Conventional Classics/PWC offerings which are, obviously, conventional trains.  And the same for my main train interest which is tinplate stuff by LCT.

I don't buy new Lionel, so nope. No worries here.

:-)

My thought after reviewing the catalog is that there are still lots of traditional conventional items. 

 

While the idea is interesting for the remotes, I'm guessing that in 10-20 years they may be regarded the same as the DC powered engines/sets from the 70's.

 

I think Lionel had a good idea, but we will have to see how it holds up over time once things start happening like remotes getting broken and parts availability for repair/replacement is established.

 

Brings a new aspect to second hand purchases since you now need to ask if the train has a proper matched remote included in order for it to run.

 

Again, when everything is working, this is a cool idea, but we will have to see how it plays out over time.

 

-Dave

 

After reading about the new remote sets, it's not clear to me if they can only be run remotely, or if they can be run conventionally too. Maybe there's a switch similar to the smoke or e-unit on/off that lets the operator decide. TMCC and Legacy equipped locos can run conventionally, so why wouldn't these be able to?

 

The nicest looking set in the catalog, the Canadian Pacific passenger set, is conventional, as are many of the better sets. For now at least, the remote seems to be an add-on gimmick for the less expensive sets.

Not worried, there is no real reason why on the engines they offer if they won't continue to offer conventional control. It doesn't really cost them anything, since conventional control is basically foward/neutral/reverse, whistle and possibly bell, speed is controlled by track voltage.....and any basic sounds or whatever they choose to implement as well. If it was costly to maintain "backwards compatibility" I would argue there is reason to worry, but basically, maintaining conventional capability costs them nothing, since conventional control is simple.

Now that I've read the description for the remote, I have some more questions.

 

The text indicates that multiple frequencies are available, but there is no indication of how that is assigned, or if it is settable by the user (maybe like a button that advances through each of the frequencies available, similar to how you cycle a Legacy base to pick which of the 10 channels you want tit ot run on).

 

Hopefully it's not random and you have to check the package to find out the frequency before you purchase (like some remotes for outlets, such as used for Christmas deisplays sometimes).  The logistics of that in terms of orders would bring a nightmare, so hopefully it's not that.

 

We know for the Thomas stuff that the remote is color coded to the engine, but that's only 5 different engines right now.   Obviously the other offerings are more numerous.

 

-Dave

 

Worried about what?

 

I would think just the opposite. I can make my conventional trains run for a long time. I can buy parts and fix them myself when they break. My Std ga #5 special is 103 years old and still runs like a top. Will your TMCC, DCS, Legacy, whateverisnext last that that long? Will you find replacement parts? Can you fix yourself?

 

Regards,

I think the key point is that the original poster is talking about the new LionChief offerings, not normal TMCC/Legacy.  All indications so far are that you need the remote to operate these trains. 

 

-Dave

Thank you everyone for your responses.

 

I saw some people talking about will we still be able to operate these sets conventionally? I don't think so, as I believe the current Thomas sets with this remote do not work without the remote.

 

Maybe I am overreacting to this whole thing, but I am just concerned that it may change the way many of us do things.

 

Just another thought: What if Lionel would produce a kit that their service stations could install to allow conventional operation in these remote sets?

According to the Thomas Set review in OGR, the new sets can run on a TMCC layout simultaneously with TMCC/Legacy gear. 

 

Because they run at 18v and on different frequencies, the starter-sets can run off their remote while Dad runs his TMCC/Legacy stuff off of his. 

 

I think this is cool: that a child can bring his train and remote to any layout or show, TMCC, Legacy, or Conventional and run it.

 

Jon

Like Kooljock described in the above post, yes the new Thomas set can run with a TMCC or Legacy engine and both can be independently controlled.  While any power supply can be used for the new Thomas set, it has to use the remote supplied with it.  When placed on the track and track power is on, it will just sit there until it recieves a command from the remote (much like a TMCC or Legacy engine in a command setup). Regarding the new LionCheif remotes, I asked the question whether they can run without a remote and the consensus for now seems to be no.  Seems to me it will be a major step backwards if these engines will only run from a specific remote. What would it take to have a simple switch on the loco for regular operation ? Kind of crazy in that you can buy a $2000 vision line engine that can run in conventional mode but not a starter set loco.

 

For Lionel service stations, will they need a stockpile of remotes to test these engines if they need to be repaired ?

 

Interesting, I don't know why they did it either. Maybe Lionel sees this command, Jr as the new conventional control/first step, with the idea that this will create a new generation of command users.

 

Obviously, one of these engines could be converted to conventional running, you could bypass the command circuit board and wire in an electronic e-unit from Dallee or the like, but prob wouldn't be worth the cost.

Gentlemen,

   Actually I think this new technology is great, giving a child the ability to run his individual train on his fathers big layout, via his own remote control is way cool.

Also I am sure Lionel will eventually upgrade the controls to make them compatible with TMCC/Legacy, and you can be sure MTH will engineer their new DCS to interface with it also.  All this new technology is great, and eventually these controls will have a Conventional side also.

PCRR/Dave

When my trains are 103 years old its quite likely I will not be around, I'm hopefrul given the work Mike Reagan has done with Lionels service and parts that may trains will be repairable as long as I'm alive to operate them. I'm not worried about the next person who owns my train.....TV.....car......or whatever.

I bought the Thomas remote set just before Christmas, and my 5 year old granddaughter had a lot of fun running it around the tree.  The whistle, bell and "all aboard"  sounds with it are really great.  When the holiday layout was taken down (2 weeks ago) I moved Thomas to a new home on a siding off a mainline downstairs. It runs fine on an 18V Legacy, TMCC, DCS setup, and the same 5 year old was really happy to se it there and to run it along with the other trains.

 

Jim

I will probably not jump right on board with the remote stuff.  My 2.5 year old son loves to operate the trains with the transformer, so for me, it's not a big deal either way.

 

Part of what I like about transformer operation is that it teaches patience and attention.  I really don't WANT him (or me) running about the room while the trains are running.  We are always looking at accessories, watching for derailments, etc.

That set caught my eye too! I guess I will wait and see before jumping conclusions.

I also am "in" on the Canadian Pacific FT set!

 

I am interested and somewhat excited about Lionels control options.  Worried? Not a bit.  Do I think conventional is on the way out?  Nope.  I am all conventional for now.

 

I think Lionel made a smart move with the low end remote sets, but time will tell.

 

Legacy.  Legacy-lite.  TrainChief.  Conventional.  Interesting to see how it all plays out.

Online catalog calls them LionChief.  My printed catalog has TrainChief.  The online should be the most recent.

 

the only draw back i see with this is that , as far as we know they need the remote to run i'd rather use a transformer, if the remote breaks your up the creek, i really like the new color scheme on the scout set, i really wanted it UNTIL i found out the only way i can run it is with a remote. i don;t think it's a bad idea but i think it would be better if you could switch them to regular conventional no remote needed. i would have bought that set then.

Dave

As long as I can retrofit bridge rectifiers and old mechanical e-units when the electronic stuff breaks down, I'm not worried. I do however think that making something that only operates with a remote is a mistake because we all know these new things don't last forever. I won't be buying anything from this catalog.

In the words of Alfred E. Neuman, "What, me worry?"

 

For new remote control sets, just crank up a transformer to 16-18 volts and use the remote.

 

Run other locomotives conventionally.

 

Seems to be the best of both worlds.

 

 

I'm not worried. This is more of a 'And' instead of an 'Or' for my conventional running. I'm intrigued at being able to easily run multiple engines on the same track, without conventional blocks or a higher level of command control.

The remote for last years Thomas set is $18.00 on the lionel.com website.  Not so much a question of price, but how readily available will each of all the different remotes be ? What happens if no replacement remotes are available ?

 

6-37106

HAND-HELD REMOTE CONTROL / BLUE / Thomas & Friends

$18.00

I really liked the idea of the new Lionchief remote system and the sets looked great. I run DCS TMCC/Legacy and sometimes conventional so I really like the idea of the remote so when I want to run one of the Lion chief locomotives I can just place it on the track and I'm ready to run. There's plenty of conventional Williams, Lionel, and some MTH out there to choose from so I'm not worried. 

personally i think that all remote locomotives should be offered as conventional also. more importantly i think model/toy trains should not take advantage of modern technology. i mean think about it, here we are trying our hardest to recreate a simpler time with our trains, and what do we do but junk it up with remote controls and computer stuff.

 

let me ask the question that plagues me about this whole remote issue, what is so flippen difficult about moving a lever on a conventional transformer vs. a silly button on a remote? are we really that lazy as a society?

 

sorry if i offend, just my opinion

it's about being able to move around the layout and still control your train and while moving around your layout if something happens you can stop your train.

 

I invite you to come to the san digeo model railroad museum and the san diego 3 railers and see how much fun it is to walk around and run your train.  you come on a tuesday and I'll let you try a train for a few minutes.

Funny.  The whole draw to Lionel Trains in the 1930's was "Remote Control" "Distant Control" and later in the 40's "Electronic Control".  Some of you guys might be happier with Brio.

 

Jon

I sure don't miss my old "Cab Control" of yesteryear, toggling through blocks to enable running just two trains on the same loop. When running conventional [one train per power district/loop these days] I control from the Cab 1 via a TPC linked to  a 180 watt POHo. Conventionall happens mostly when the Grand Kids run their Thomas stuff

I much prefer Command Control currently because it is so much easier to run multiple engines/trains in the same power districts.

 

I am not worried even if Lionel goes out of business. IMO, all those complex electronics in their just equals more unreliablity. I keep it simple and enjoy compelete reliability. Whether the name tag says Williams, MTH or Lionel the trains look equally as good running around the layout and visitors no nothing about the different brands.