"Lionel Dealer Layout Green" - Need mix formula for paint color

Can you take a small sample to one of those suppliers? They may be able to computerize the sample for you. You could also call Lionel, but I' be surprised you will get anything. 

Rustoleum Satin #7737 Spruce Green is the closest I have found in ready to go, off the shelf paint.

granted, this is rattle can, but it works.   if you want a gallon, just create a sample on some wood, and take it to your paint place for them to computer match it.

Another thought:  you might contact TW Trainworks and see what green they use on the display type layouts they have built over the years.

I think I still have my paint sample card from Home Depot for the paint I used on my Lionel PW-style layout. I’ll check this evening and post the name.

Why not just get some color swatches and eyeball what looks good to you, under your own layout lighting conditions. "Authentic Lionel" colors fade over time and may not always be accurately depicted in photos due to lighting etc. Lionel wasn't necessarily using precise color formulas on their display layouts over the years.

johnstrains posted:

I think I still have my paint sample card from Home Depot for the paint I used on my Lionel PW-style layout. I’ll check this evening and post the name.

That would be great, if you have it handy.

I will also have a look at that Rustoleum product, as another possibility.

I am not sure where I would ever find an actual sample to have computer matched. That is why I am looking for a color that someone has already used, and is happy with.

Jeff

A forum member who goes by christopher2035 built a post war layout a few years ago and painted it green as one would have been painted back then. Here's the link to a thread he posted regarding the build.

https://ogrforum.com/topic/new-layout-pics

If it's what you're looking for he might remember the color.

Mike

Hopefully Jagrick will chime in.
He has done some beautiful restoration and reproduction work on Lionel dealer displays.

mowingman posted:

johnstrains posted:

I think I still have my paint sample card from Home Depot for the paint I used on my Lionel PW-style layout. I’ll check this evening and post the name.

That would be great, if you have it handy.

I will also have a look at that Rustoleum product, as another possibility.

I am not sure where I would ever find an actual sample to have computer matched. That is why I am looking for a color that someone has already used, and is happy with.

Jeff

Jeff, The green (Behr paint at Home Depot)  I used was "Park Picnic." The code on the paint sample is P-390-7. As you might expect there are loads of green shades that might suit a Lionel PW style layout so check around.

Another tip:  I frequently have the paint guys make up 2-3 sample sizes of different shades and then I paint them on pieces of scrap wood to see how they turn out. An easy and inexpensive way to "test drive" different shades 'til you find what you like.

That's a good color!   Behr Park Picnic P390-7

here's the monster thread with various photos of some originals. The D-1601 on the third page is the shade shade of green for the fascia board and the transformer board that looks original to my eye.

remember the camera photos and your computer screen will alter the shade.

You can use it to find some others also to help your point of reference for the shade that your eye likes. Be sure to use a white primer( the same mfg. recommended for that class of paint) with the shade that you purchase for the dry color to be what you expected.

Thanks guys. I will get a sample of that Behr color and use it as a starting point. I am sure we all have memories of those layouts colors that differ. What seems right to one, may not seem right to someone else, and of course, as mentioned, there were many variations.

Jeff

Did some (or many?) of these factory display layouts have sawdust "grass" sprinkled over freshly applied paint? Because that's another factor that would affect the overall appearance. "Grass" gives some mottled scenic variation to the appearance which looks better than a uniform paint finish.

Ace posted:

Did some (or many?) of these factory display layouts have sawdust "grass" sprinkled over freshly applied paint? Because that's another factor that would affect the overall appearance. "Grass" gives some mottled scenic variation to the appearance which looks better than a uniform paint finish.

Yes, exactly. Was thinking the same thing the other day when I replied above.

I have managed to pick up several full bags of Lionel 919 “grass” and am getting ready to try that while re-doing my PW-style layout. Will test it out on some scrap wood first using the-sprinkle-it-on to wet paint approach.

You may get some good tips from this thread on building a D-148 by Andrew B.  I recall that he found a method to make the 919 stick to the base paint well.

See what think you about this Benjamin Moore "Cocoa Sand" for a base earth tone.

EDIT: read Andrew B.'s post of 3.5.15 on his grass application tip.

moved the D222 upstairs in train room and moved some stuff around-running out of room!

Seeing this thread has been ressurected here are some shots of my Dealer Display Layout (D-105) showing the green paint I used. It is indeed Behr Park Picnic as mentioned above.

One more shot. Am happy with results so far. Top level complete. Finishing lower level soon.

Lionel used basically two different shades of "green" for the fascia boards for these display layouts.  Layouts from 1952 - 1954 used a bright green (similar to the Behr Park Picnic above.  From 1954 until the end in 1966, they used a more muted "grey-green" like that seen on the D-190 in Jagrick's photos above. Both of these were a semi-gloss finish (the paint on the layout boards themselves was a flat finish).  All were originally oil based paints.   So when restoring original layouts (or making a recreation), you should know the year of the display so the correct color can be used.  It is true that the original colors of the displays fade over time, so it is best to match an area that has not been exposed if possible.  One tip is to look at the bottom of the fascia boards, which usually have some slop-over (remember these things were painted by college students in the summer working very quickly) to obtain the "true" color.

Frank G. posted:

Lionel used basically two different shades of "green" for the fascia boards for these display layouts.  Layouts from 1952 - 1954 used a bright green (similar to the Behr Park Picnic above.  From 1954 until the end in 1966, they used a more muted "grey-green" like that seen on the D-190 in Jagrick's photos above. Both of these were a semi-gloss finish (the paint on the layout boards themselves was a flat finish).  All were originally oil based paints.   So when restoring original layouts (or making a recreation), you should know the year of the display so the correct color can be used. 

Thanks, Frank. Always helpful information.

My layout (the D-105) was one of the earlier ones. 1953 I believe. So looks like I chose well with the Park Picnic green. Of course that was pure chance on my part.

D27 in action, all pieces, layout and gondolas are reproductions

How cool is that?! A great looking reproduction of a Lionel classic.

Funny how you can keep watching the action over and over even though you know what's going to happen.

Here is an original D190:

My reproduction:

Used the Rustoleum rattle can paint.

Link to original build post:

https://ogrforum.com/...ply=6498170323407868

I spoke some time ago to a member who suggested a color called Behr Dill Pickle. 

Here's a closeup. Note it uses the original 919 Lionel grass on the layout. I think it's a close approximation.

 From 1954 until the end in 1966, they used a more muted "grey-green" like that seen on the D-190 in Jagrick's photos above.

Anybody have a recommendation to match this (Grey-green) color?

Here's how I did mine - 

CharlieS posted:

 From 1954 until the end in 1966, they used a more muted "grey-green" like that seen on the D-190 in Jagrick's photos above.

Anybody have a recommendation to match this (Grey-green) color?

Sticking with Behr paints, their Indian Ocean (#480D-4) looks pretty close to the grey-green above. Really need to try a couple of samples in the same color group to find the best match.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/BE...e-480D-4PP/202179753

As I mentioned previously, when choosing my “Lionel green” had them make up 4-5 samples that I painted on pieces of scrap wood. Once dry you could compare to get a good idea of the desired look.

CharlieS posted:

 From 1954 until the end in 1966, they used a more muted "grey-green" like that seen on the D-190 in Jagrick's photos above.

Anybody have a recommendation to match this (Grey-green) color?

That color is really close to a color called Harrisburg Green

finishing up the D60 display

Jagrick posted:

finishing up the D60 display

Really looks great. Lots of eye appeal with the colors on shelving portion.

johnstrains posted:

Seeing this thread has been ressurected here are some shots of my Dealer Display Layout (D-105) showing the green paint I used. It is indeed Behr Park Picnic as mentioned above.

I am going to try to resurrect this thread! I am starting my build of the Famous layout in the 1957 catalog and need some advice on paint and such.

How did you all go about painting the tabletop? Did you paint the base color first then layout where all of your track and accessories  will be and then tape them off to paint the green for the grass sections?

Is their a good substitute for the old Lionel sawdust grass?

If you have the paint color names and numbers please list them below.

Thanks in advance to all that take time to respond!!

The below photos are more for a reference point than a recommendation for a paint color shade. Top photo is one shared by Christopher2035 on the other big postwar dealer display thread. I like it because it shows both the grey-green-blue side color and the deeper green layout base color. 

The second photo is of our layout. The control panel is Harrisburg green, which is recommended above. The layout is kelp forest, similar to the park picnic shared by John above. 

In my opinion, Harrisburg green, while very close, needs a touch of blue to look more like the original. Kelp forest seems pretty close, and the Lionel 919 grass should also be applied to get the color and texture variation.

The other color you will need is the roadbed and road color. I haven’t seen a specific color posted for that, but it seems to be a shade of almond white.  

i made the mistake of painting everything green first.  You should paint everything the almond white base color, then lay track, tape it off, paint green in open spaces, and add lionel 919 grass to the wet green paint. 

Your best bet for Lionel 919 grass is buy some on eBay.

JD2035RR posted:

The other color you will need is the roadbed and road color. I haven’t seen a specific color posted for that, but it seems to be a shade of almond white.  

i made the mistake of painting everything green first.  You should paint everything the almond white base color, then lay track, tape it off, paint green in open spaces, and add lionel 919 grass to the wet green paint. 

Your best bet for Lionel 919 grass is buy some on eBay. 

 

Exactly. This is how I did mine. See above. Painted the underlying color first, masked off the track and road bed areas, and then did the green. Sprinkle on the "grass" while still wet.

For my off white or cream color I used one of the Behr paints. I can find the color name/number and post it.

Edit:  The off-white or cream color I used for the track road bed was Behr's Lunaria.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/BE...le-UL20016/205297566

 The later display layouts were Masonite and the green paint was applied over that and then masonite was the color of the roads and road bed. Very early dealer displays word ivory with no grass in fact the first grassed way up I know of was the double O dealer display. 

Recently completed my referb of a Lionel Postwar D-400 layout. 

Grass areas are painted with Behr Park Picnic (p-390-7). All roads and rail beds painted with Benjamin Moore Cocoa Sand. Original Lionel #919 artificial grass was applied to all grass areas. 

This shot was taken before applying the 919 grass.

After 919 grass application.

BrianD-400 posted:

Recently completed my referb of a Lionel Postwar D-400 layout. 

Grass areas are painted with Behr Park Picnic (p-390-7). All roads and rail beds painted with Benjamin Moore Cocoa Sand. Original Lionel #919 artificial grass was applied to all grass areas. 

This shot was taken before applying the 919 grass.

After 919 grass application.

Looks great. Interestingly, the D-400 was a combo O27 and HO display layout. It also included some shelving that mounted to the table where trains were displayed. Are you going that route?

Love the idea of shelving mounted below! Do you happen to have the plans for the shelving?

Are you guys using templates for the roadbed and accessories? How do you get them so perfect??

Thank you all for your input so far!!