What do you have do to get access to inside to make lighting improvements. I believe these were in the set of the first 18" cars.
Martin Derouin
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OK, this might get you started as all of the aluminum observation cars based on K-Line tooling were similar. I posted a thread a while back about taking apart a 21” observation car: https://ogrforum.com/...l-21-observation-car
I am not sure but this might be the Lionel parts diagram for yours:
As you can see the lamp panel is just a strip that slides on to part of the body shell roof. If all you are looking to do is replace that or individual lamps in it you can get at it by taking off the vestibule end cap assembly (see below), detaching the wire between the strip and the power wire feed and sliding it out. I think that the manuals for these cars show how to do that.
If what you want to do is get the inside of the car out all three of the end pieces (the vestibule assembly numbered 23 and the upper and lower boat-tail sections numbered 17 and 5) have to be detached. The vestibule is held on by two screws through the underside of the frame; the rear sections by a single long screw through the frame and up into the roof piece; that screw is numbered 21 above.
The frame is made to slide into slots in the body shell, which you will see once you have the vestibule off. Getting it to slide out (and back in) may not be easy as it’s a tight fit. Some WD-40 into the slot can help and to get it back in you may have to pull the body shell sides apart slightly. But also you may have to loosen the trucks to stop them binding on the body shell as you pull the frame out. I am not sure how the trucks are fastened to the frame on these cars - maybe someone else can say whether they need to be detached and how it’s done.
Good luck!
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Here is what I learned today...Remove the 3 screws that hold the ends on. are 6 screws to remove to take off the die-cast under frame detail, and two screws to remove to remove to disconnect the two ground wires right near the back of each truck. And one small screw to remove on rear, now you can lift up the frame from the plastic interior, very limited due to wires being short. I just couldn't figure out how to get interior out (maybe glued in). At any rate I installed A red 3mm blinking light in the roof and put red 2mm led in the side marker lights. Before these were lit up by the roof lights and wasn't very effective. Anybody that does this ought to get double time...
Too much work involved...
Marty
FWIW, the El Capitan NEVER had an observation car.
SantaFeJim posted:FWIW, the El Capitan NEVER had an observation car.
Never? Ever?
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Bob Bubeck posted:SantaFeJim posted:FWIW, the El Capitan NEVER had an observation car.
Never? Ever?
Very interesting photograph. However, the El Capitan, being made up of high-level, streamlined cars, didn't have a transition car at the rear of the train, so how would the passengers gain access to that beautiful round-end observation car in the photo? Plus, note that none of the cars forward of the observation car in the photo, are high-lever cars. So,,,,,,,aside from the cool druhed, I wonder what train the REALLY is.
Pre-1956, the El Capitan had single level cars, including a coach-observation.
After the train was combined with the Super Chief, there was a stepdown on the rear end of the train, as the SC was tacked on the back of the coach section.
Boilermaker1 posted:Pre-1956, the El Capitan had single level cars, including a coach-observation. <snip>
Correct. And, the pre-1956 El Capitan is what Lionel was approximating with this particular 18" model passenger car set.
Cheers.
Bob
Unless I am mistaken, this same former El Cap observation car was used to pull behind M-160 or M-190 to make a consist for the "Pecos Valley Chief" between Clovis and Carlsbad, NM. After ATSF rebuild their round-end observation cars to work in mid-train service, the former El Cap car kept its original design.
I also think the obs in question survived to reside in a collection at Dallas Fair Park, and has recently been moved to the new RR museum in Frisco, TX.
A member of the ATSF Modeling and Historical Society should jump all over this thread.
Joe McMillan photo.
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The
Hot Water posted:Bob Bubeck posted:SantaFeJim posted:FWIW, the El Capitan NEVER had an observation car.
Never? Ever?
Very interesting photograph. However, the El Capitan, being made up of high-level, streamlined cars, didn't have a transition car at the rear of the train, so how would the passengers gain access to that beautiful round-end observation car in the photo? Plus, note that none of the cars forward of the observation car in the photo, are high-lever cars. So,,,,,,,aside from the cool druhed, I wonder what train the REALLY is.
The El Capitan started service in 1938 as the running mate to the all Pullman Super Chief. The El Capitan was a single level all chair train with an observation car until 1956. On July 15 1956 the AT&SF placed in service its new El Capitan Hi-level equipment to replace the single level cars.
Here are a couple of shots of the rear of the car with the new lighting added:
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Very nice improvement. I did the same new lighting on my 21” observation car. Yeah, it’s a lot of effort getting inside these aluminum cars but worth it.
This is a good photo of a Santa Fe chair-observation car, with much input into its design coming from the railroad's Mechanical Engineering Department, as well as the Passenger Traffic Department. This one was built by Budd, but others were built by Pullman-Standard, the spotting differences being the smaller windows and smooth roofs of the P-S cars.
The pretty young lady is a Courier-Nurse. There was always one assigned to ElCapitan right to the end of Santa Fe passenger service. They assisted women passengers, travelers with small children, the aged, and anybody who needed assistance. Many unaccompanied women chose ElCapitan for travel because of these competent and kind on-board employees.
The car pictured is a Chair-Observation. Unlike many trains in the East, ElCapitan did not have any parlor seating. The comfortable leg-rest seats were the only accommodation. Santa Fe charged an extra fare to ride the Super Chief or El Capitan, and it was worth it because of the upscale comfort and service aboard both trains.
The train drumhead was not hung on the rear. The frame was stationary, and the drumhead glass was inserted from the car interior. The white headlight at the top was for making reverse movements, as was the air-operated windshield wiper, both controlled through a trap door on the top of the desk at the rear. Santa Fe used the headlight for visibility, unlike many other railroads, which used it as a red marker, or a red Mars Light for protection against trains approaching from the rear. The marker lights near the roof on each side displayed red to the rear and yellow to the front.
Santa Fe did have some round-end Parlor-Observation cars -- with comfortable, center-facing, lounge chairs instead of the rotating and reclining seats used by some other railroads --which operated on the Tulsan and the San Diegan. The San Diegan cars were converted to Chair-Observations in the early 1950's, and the Tulsan's cars got that treatment in the late '50's. Many of the cars had their observation ends squared off after Hi-Level cars took over El Capitan, but at least two remained round.
The photo of the Carlsbad to Clovis train coming off the Carlsbad line onto the main line at Clovis behind Motor Car M-190, shows the round-end chair car 3197, which was a fixture on this train from around 1960 until its discontinuance in 1967. Another such car was used on the Belen to El Paso train in the late 1950's. After these cars were no longer assigned to a particular train, there was a single red light, mounted in a stainless steel disc, installed where the train drumhead had originally been inserted. Santa Fe started using a single stationary red light on the rear car of passenger trains in the late 1950's*. Regular markers were used in combination with the red light until the early 1960's.
I went on a long train trip in 1967, to ride trains I had not ridden while it was still possible to do so. I arrived in Clovis on the San Francisco Chief (behind A-B-B-A Alco-GE' PA's and PB's) to ride the Clovis train, only to find that the New Mexico Commerce Commission had allowed discontinuance only one day before. Oh well . . . the M-190 and the M-a60 were over in the roundhouse area, and I took Kodachromes of them and of numerous 200-Class F7 freight engines, plus the Baldwin switchers that worked the head end of the passenger trains, making up and breaking up the Houston to Clovis trains (which also used Alco-GE power). And I had a very fast ride behindfive rednose F-units, over to Belen in the heavyweight rider car at the rear of No.3, the southern section of the westward Fast Mail. We were late out of Clovis and on-time arriving at Belen. The Engineer did a magnificent job of fast and smooth train handling, running that tricky-handling train over the road. That was some real railroading, I'll tell you!
* The red light was hung on the scissor gate at the rear of cars with standard ends.
Martin Derouin posted:Here are a couple of shots of the rear of the car with the new lighting added:
Nice work, Martin, and, after reading about what you had to do to accomplish this, your personal record has been awarded ten merits.
