Lionel H10 Audio Cutout Issue

Sounds like they remixed the audio and have the file available.  I'm going to give them a couple of days to digest this fix and then arrange to send the boards in to be reprogrammed.

RickO posted:

 Just curious. Does raising the train brake slider to reduce the labor/ deep chuff help the issue? Or is that not enough.

At full volume I had the issue with no train brake set.

E-UNIT-79 posted:

John I know nothing about these Electronics but in car audio systems when that would happen to the amp a capacitor being in front of the amp would always solve what was pretty much the same problem. could a larger capacitor maybe help the issue? Like I said I don't know anything about these railsounds boards. 

I have no idea if that would have the desired effect or not.  However, I prefer the fix that allows me to obtain the corrected boards without doing modifications to the locomotive.

Interesting  John.

I ran mine, full volume and EFX up all the way and used the whistle.

No issues.

I wonder why some are affected and not others....or is it just a matter of time.

Dave

All the ones I've seen with the issue have been the small tender.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

All the ones I've seen with the issue have been the small tender.

What is the difference, other than tender size? Sounds? Speaker(s)?

Not sure, don't know what the inside of the large tender looks like.   I suspect that most of the stuff is the same, just more room in the larger tender for heat dissipation.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not sure, don't know what the inside of the large tender looks like.   I suspect that most of the stuff is the same, just more room in the larger tender for heat dissipation.

https://ogrforum.com/...12#81819042984685812

Top of page 3 John. Two of us posted the inside of the larger tenders.

Not saying the answer lies in them, just saying you can use them as reference if possible.

Hope this helps!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Not sure, don't know what the inside of the large tender looks like.   I suspect that most of the stuff is the same, just more room in the larger tender for heat dissipation.

Well, if larger tenders don't have the issue. Again would a small heat sink help?  Yes the current draw is putting it on the edge and no room in those small tenders to keep it cool.  But isn't this all none starter anyway since Lionel is willing to reflash the railsounds lite boards to cure the problem.  is it one of the can IC?  not knowing what the fix sounds like, there maybe people out there who want to keep these sounds but fix the problem.

Thanks Daniel, looks to be the same two boards, that's pretty standard for Lionel steam.  I don't know of different road names had different sound files as well.  In any case, Lionel was able to duplicate the failure and develop a fix, so I'm happy that I can resolve this.

Gary, I think I'll just go for the new sound file, I've already had to screw around with the positioning of the board in my tender as the harnesses are too short to allow it to be oriented correctly and not clash with the connector board above it.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Gary, I think I'll just go for the new sound file, I've already had to screw around with the positioning of the board in my tender as the harnesses are too short to allow it to be oriented correctly and not clash with the connector board above it.

When you send the board in to be re-flashed maybe you can have Dean send you a corrected harness. 

I was planning on asking for that.

Add another H-10 (6-85387) Western Allegheny with larger tender to the list - DOM 08/31/18.  Previously, I had only run the sound at full volume and 50 percent EFX and infrequent use of the whistle with no issues and for a total of 10 hours. 

Today, I took a shot at reproducing the sound cut-out.  After 10 minutes of running at full volume and 100% EFX, it does cut out and that can be reproduced easily by blowing the whistle.  Then, shut her down and let it cool off.  Next, I ran it again at full volume and 50% EFX for about 10 minutes with no issues until I leaned on the whistle for long periods - that produced the cut out again easily - use of the whistle will push the temp over the top.  So, looks like a re-flash of the sound board is in order.

GRJ, have you sent your sound boards in for the re-flash yet?

Nope Rick, Lionel isn't accepting RMA's until early July now, they're moving.  I'm going to gather up some of the club members boards and send it a big shot to get them all upgraded.

I did have another thought as well.  I have some 16 ohm speakers the exact same form factor as the 8 ohm ones in the H10.  Since it's an overload issue, they would probably solve the problem and most likely produce roughly the same sound reduction as the reprogrammed sound file.  I did some testing last year...

ERR Speakers for RS Commander Kits

As you can see, installing a 16 ohm speaker would drop the output significantly for the same audio signal, almost certainly enough to avoid triggering the overload cutout I would expect.  My only concern is the possibility of additional distortion due to clipping when driving a lighter load.

FWIW, I have the H10 set, with the "small tender" loco. It is all packed up and in storage at the moment while I sell my home of the past 15 years and relocate but prior to packing it up, I put quite a number of problem-free miles since it arrived around Christmas time. 

The entire set was perfect out of the box and remained so until I packed it up a month or so ago. Great set and engine! No audio issues at all. 

I think you'll find under the right circumstances, the audio will cut out.  It's a programming error for the audio level of the audio file on the sound board, they all have the same sound file.  It only happens when you max out the bass using the chuff effects and then add in the whistle.  It also takes some time as I believe the cutout is a thermal cutout.

Thanks GRJ; I will wait till July to send mine in also; I have replaced the lite sound card in the tender of my USRA Pacific Atlanta and Westpoint (6-85170) - tedious but not hard to do due to the nice layout - no soldering; plenty of room for a future YLB battery; I have not opened up the large tender for the H-10 yet.  I take it that mentioning Dave or Dean's name at RA time will start the process.

Does anyone have pictures of an open tender?

Well, I put the YLB into the small tender, so I'm sure it fits in the large tender.  

Found some pics of the tender from Gonzalez's Western Allegheny (top, loco 85) and Sandjam's PRSL version:

https://ogrforum.com/...h-power-tools?page=3

Lots of room in there.

Just for the heck of it, I put my Lionel E6 #460 Pennsylvania through max volume and 100% EFX for about 15 minutes while leaning on the whistle - its sound card had no issues.

You're lucky, I'm sure it's just on the edge.  Since it takes a while for it to show up for any of them, I suspect we're right on the threshold of the overload tripping.  Hard to say what pushes it over the edge.

GRJ, have you sent in your H10 soundcard to be reflashed yet?? Thanks, RickM46

Nope, with the log jam at Lionel with all the PA's and Challengers, I suspect it'll be a spell before they'd work on them.