Lionel Innovations

There are lots of innovative new things in model railroading and it never seems to stop. Lionel was the first and foremost O gauge train manufacturer. They have been around a lot longer, so they had more time to develop new products, buts lets also credit MTH for some great new unique accessories, additional model types, more scale detail/realism to the equation, and for creating a competitive atmosphere.

Well, K-Line had something to do with pushing Lionel to produce better products before MTH was doing much besides tinplate...

I my option when MTH came on to the market place and gave Lionel a run for their money. Again in my option I believe it was the golden years for the modern before settling the lawsuit. Both companies improve the product and product lines with greater detail and features. After the lawsuit all I have notice is both companies have raised the prices and not many improvements or new product lines.

I don't know that any other hobby has such a wide range of age.

some start as early as 2 and continue until well into their 90's.

Over that time I'm sure taste's change.

I remember seeing a video where the CEO of Lionel said that

"Play Value" was always a high priority.  It seems that Lionel has

stayed that course, where as MTH is a little more serious about it's type

of product and is willing to take a few more chances with smaller market items.

(The climax and the DD1 come to mind ).

That being said, That is what makes the hobby great. You may run the engine

with all the gadgets and dad can have the good ol conventional control,

but to your original statement. Look at everything and get or do what you like.

If you have an idea post it here. Who knows a manufacture may like it and run with it...

I think a lot of credit has to go to Neil Young. IMHO, he really did a lot to get things rolling.

John,  It was MTH who pushed Lionel with their Premier Line PS-1.  More Premier.

Without it not much scale stuff came out of Lionel or K-Line.   G

Originally Posted by GGG:

John,  It was MTH who pushed Lionel with their Premier Line PS-1.  More Premier.

Without it not much scale stuff came out of Lionel or K-Line.

 

Agreed! MTH and their sales of scale locos and die cast locos in their premier line caused a 3 mil loss for Lionel in 1998. After that loss and a change of CEO's, Lionel "woke up" and went full scale. K-line had limited capital and just dabbled in O scale until the 2000 catalog. From 2000-2006 O gauge was in it's"Golden Years"- High tech and scale equipment with reasonable prices.

Agreed too that now the market is just status quo with mainly a new freight car or two being introduced and a trickle of new locos.

Agree. I've read what's available regarding the lawsuit and to me it's clear that MTH created a new paradigm that forced its competitors to stop churning out the same old and, instead, find a way to meet the new standard.  

Having said that, it seems MTH's innovation slowly awakened a sleeping giant, and I'm still waiting for the innovator (MTH) to catch up with the features Lionel has introduced over the past 5 or so years - steam chest, Dynamo effects, whistle steam, blow-down, swinging bell, ash pan glow, depleting coal load, etc.  It seems MTH is taking baby steps in the right direction, introducing what might be a superior whistle steam to its upcoming Big Boy.  I wonder, however, if MTH is aware that people like me, who were pure MTH customers have basically switched to Lionel due to MTH not keeping pace. The ripple effect is that this could skew statistics, with MTH potentially assuming less people have an interest in their O gauge or steam product offerings, when the fact is, the interest remains, but for products that are more feature-rich. 

Peter

Yes lionel is a very big comany and had a tight grib  on the o gauge train market.Mth caught lionel by suprise by doing different types of locomotives.And train sets that had strong pulling locomotives so you could add on.The track in these sets had roadbed so you could pretty much.Set them train anywhere you wanted.The mth sets also had a 2-8-0 ,2-6-0,f3 I think.Then you have kline that did some pretty nice trains.Now lionel train sets have changed alot since the 2003.Lionel has even added to their trainsets track with roadbed,steam locomotives 2-8-4 jr 2-8-2jr gp38 and 0-8-0.Mth maded lionel get up and take notice.As I see it we the customers are the winners here.

I think the diversion into HO and European market has taxed MTH ability to innovate in US O.

Look at MTH Coors, operating Pantographs, Gas station, Car Wash and other items from the 2000s.  They did stuff no one else did, but only once.

PS-2/3 has the ability to talk to other things.  Coor's reefer.  Heck MTH could make and engine that has the caboose swing the bell and wave the arm of the conductor if they wanted too.  The design guys are too deep into writing code for other stuff.

I also think a significant loss of tech must have occurred on the move from Korea to China.  Lionel compensated by hiring Mike R and Jon Z.  Deeper pockets or willingness to spend.

Just an opinion on my part.  G

I started and stop collecting trains back in the 80's and restarted 2008. I missed "K-Line" giving Lionel a run for the money. I did see the MTH run for the money.  I do have a few K line engines and freight and passenger cars. For the most part no complains what so ever for K-Line.

For whatever reason, MTH has certainly slowed down introducing new and different stuff.  That's a shame, because one of the things I liked about their product line is they had a lot of unique stuff that nobody else made.

John,

Did, you hear him joke at the last York DCS meeting? Someone asked him, when new products might be developed. He stated 2 years....I'm sure you know, what he was talking about.

Huh?

It's the economy! A change of guard! Get it?

When Mike retires?

I believe generally these post relate to the engines made, but on a side note for me personally. I look at Atlas cars first before MTH, or Lionel for scale size and accuracy. As to passenger cars, I look to K-Line on the secondary market for my needs. Lionel and MTH need to compromise on a command system, both seem more interested in producing limited BBs (no not Big Boys, but rather Big Buck)items.

There are still a lot of average, starters, and beginners who don't have warehouse sized layouts, waiting for some smaller detailed engines, and reasonable priced scale cars to add.

Myself, I look to Atlas, Weaver, K-Line, MTH, and the Lionel in that order when looking to add to my layout, or display.

A new player in the field Menard is showing the way in accessories, now if they could only delve in scale cars they would be a leader, especially in their pricing which is probable the most reasonable for new products produced.

I like Atlas cars for their accuracy in the details, but they are also pretty fragile because of some of those details.

I agree about Menards, they have some very good pricing on their O-scale cars, they just need to upsize to scale and we're set.

Guns,

   Wait just a minute, there is no way to compare a fine Atlas Steam Era Masters Series Box Car, to the simple inexpensive rolling stock Menards sells.  Heck I even had to upgrade the Trucks on the Menards Tank, flat cars, so they would run properly all the time, something Atlas would never ever do.  If you are going to have realistic detail on O gauge rolling stock, it is going to be delicate and expensive.  Remember also the Atlas Master Series rolling stock comes in either 3 or 2 rail simply switching detail parts, something Menards rolling stock is not engineered to accomplish.  As far as exacting scale goes, it is not relevant to my kind of layout, what so ever.

PCRR/Dave

I wasn't aware I was comparing them, I just commented on Atlas cars and then agreed with someone about Menards getting into the scale car business.

The UL approved MTH Z-4000 was, and still is, an amazing and reliable power source. I have one purchased in 1998 and still going strong! 

I guess you had to be there, but I get it now and you may be close to the bulls eye!  G