Lionel LionChief+ 2.0 Berkshires semi-scale?

i've heard they are tiny and something like my gp38 would tower over them

I'm not quite sure how the term semi-scale applies to these or any locomotive if you follow the argument of it's either scale or not, no in between.  They're the same as the Berkshires used in the Polar Express sets and have also been known as the "Berkshire Jr".  Reasonable looking for a toy train, but nowhere near scale in size.

WHICH LionChief 2.0 Berkshire?  The Baby Berks like the Polar Express?  Or the big Post War #726 based?  They’ve both been made, and are quite different in size.

Jon  

They are the same size as postwar Berkshires

@KOOLjock1 posted:

WHICH LionChief 2.0 Berkshire?  The Baby Berks like the Polar Express?  Or the big Post War #726 based?  They’ve both been made, and are quite different in size.

Jon  

I believe the only Lionchief Plus 2.0 (not Lionchief Plus) Berkshires cataloged thus far are the Berkshire Jr locomotives (not the Postwar 726/736 copies) which I also don't believe have hit the stores yet.

Here's a video I found on Youtube of an older TMCC version of the same locomotive pulling a short freight train.  The cars directly behind the locomotive appear to be the traditional sized boxcars which already dwarf the locomotive somewhat.  I'm sure a scale car would make it look even smaller.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. The Lionchief Plus 2.0 Polar Express 1932090 that still has not hit the store. 

The Polar Express Berkshire that was introduced in the movie-based set in 2004 is a traditional-sized Berkshire. That casting has been used for the LionChief and now LionChief Plus 2.0 line since then.

The model is based on Pere Marquette 1225, unlike the postwar Berks that started with the 726, which is not really based on any prototype.

Distinctly different models, but both traditional-sized. You can call the Polar Express Berk semi-scale because it is based on a real locomotive, but I refuse to use that term for the 726/736 models.

The Lionel 1932090 is clearly not scale based on published information.  The semi-scale Berkshire on the left is the 1932090, the 6-28681 Berkshire Jr is in the middle, and a scale 6-11451 Berkshire is on the right.  The scale Berkshire is considerably larger than either of the semi-scale or "traditional" models.

It's interesting that the Berkshire Jr. is listed an inch shorter than the LC+ 2.0 model, I'd be curious to see those two together.

@gunrunnerjohn posted: It's interesting that the Berkshire Jr. is listed an inch shorter than the LC+ 2.0 model, I'd be curious to see those two together.

 

Perhaps a shorter drawbar on the newer one?  I noticed the minimum curve rating also changed, but that could also be due to the fact that O-31 is the smallest curve Lionel currently makes in the Fastrack line.  I own a conventional PE Berkshire and also a Lionchief one.  The conventional one is stored "off site" and the box the Lionchief one is packed in is buried conveniently at the bottom of the pile... wish I could compare those.  I want to say there was a bigger gap with the LC locomotive vs the original due to the drawbar.  Another change would be the coupler since the LC+ 2.0 locomotives will have electrocouplers.  They might have gone with a shorter coupler shank.

Well, the LC+ 2.0 one is the longer one, so it would have to be a longer coupler.

Duh, I flipped things around in my head 

I believe I saw in a video that they're using some new tether/drawbar setup on the LC+ 2.0 stuff.  I wonder if that added some length also.

Could be, I can't imagine they have new tooling for the LC+ 2.0 shell, I have to believe it's the same shell as the PE sets.

From what I can tell, there are TWO DIFFERENT Berkshires made in the Lionchief Line. I have a Lionchief Nickel Plate model made in 2017 (#84252 I believe) which appears to be a traditional postwar 726/736 sized model. But Lionel is apparently making the “Berkshire Jr.” model RIGHT NOW in the Lionchief line which is a smaller loco. At least tha5vwhat the catalog photos seem to show.

If you look at the front boiler of the two locos you will see a distinct difference in placement of the green pilot lights. The older style 736 (used for the 2017 model) has the traditional unlit postwar jewels sticking up, while the newer and shorter “Junior” model has them inside the loco casting and illuminated from behind.

I believe that Lionel is now making the “Junior model” as cataloged recently rather than the larger model manufactured in 2017. As I said, my 736 style model is from 2017. 

I hope I have this right!

Dave,

Keep in mind that the new 2.0 has more operating lights than the 2017 model. That may have something to do with the change. 

@Dave Warburton posted:

From what I can tell, there are TWO DIFFERENT Berkshires made in the Lionchief Line. I have a Lionchief Nickel Plate model made in 2017 (#84252 I believe) which appears to be a traditional postwar 726/736 sized model. But Lionel is apparently making the “Berkshire Jr.” model RIGHT NOW in the Lionchief line which is a smaller loco. At least tha5vwhat the catalog photos seem to show.

If you look at the front boiler of the two locos you will see a distinct difference in placement of the green pilot lights. The older style 736 (used for the 2017 model) has the traditional unlit postwar jewels sticking up, while the newer and shorter “Junior” model has them inside the loco casting and illuminated from behind.

I believe that Lionel is now making the “Junior model” as cataloged recently rather than the larger model manufactured in 2017. As I said, my 736 style model is from 2017. 

I hope I have this right!

You are correct from what I can tell.  The locomotive in question is definitely the Berkshire Jr. locomotive, not the postwar 736 style engine.  The Berkshire Jr has been made I believe only in the plain Lionchief line.  The Postwar Berkshire was produced when Lionchief Plus was introduced.  Now the recently cataloged Berkshires with Lionchief Plus 2.0 are back to the Berkshire Jr. locomotive.  

As far as being a smaller locomotive, it depends on how you look at it.  I found a photo on another forum when I did a google search that compares a Postwar Berkshire with one of the Berkshire Jr types.  They were actually about the same length and height (Jr might have been slightly smaller).  Things such as smaller wheels and such definitely make the Berkshire Jr. Locomotives appear even tinier though.

https://ogrforum.com/...0#146142158285886950

That video is helpful, Jake. Thank you!

I own the recent LionChief Polar Express set (with Bluetooth), and one thing I notice between my locomotive and the one in your video is the drawbar and shape of the tender. It looks like the new LC+ 2.0 Berks will have a slightly different tender design than the PE LC Berks. Plus, with the new 8-pin drawbar on the LC+ 2.0 engines, it looks much shorter in the photos I've seen online and in the catalogs - the drawbar on the PE LC Berk is WAY too long, but I admire it for the novelty. Why Lionel didn't put a six-wheel truck tender similar to the 2017 LC+ Berks, who knows. Better yet, a longer, realistic tender that the S Gauge FlyerChief engines have.

I've been hoping that Lionel would show some kind of in-depth video and/or photo samples of the LC+ 2.0 Berks just as they did with the new LionMaster Big Boys.

Speaking of which, I've heard nothing but outstanding reviews on the new LC+ 2.0 Big Boys, and they have the new 8-pin drawbars between the loco and the tender. The videos I've seen of the Big Boys are impressive - I'm hopeful the Berks will have just as excellent quality of sound and smooth operation.

I have the Nickel Plate Road #765 LC+ 2.0 Berk on pre-order with my local hobby shop, and I'm anxious to receive it. Overall, I'm hoping the patience will be a virtue when we see these engines. I'm particularly excited about the cab light, the reverse light on the tender, and the 4 chuffs/revolution.

I forgot to mention that the “Junior” model @also has a bell hanging in front of the nose while the other one (736 style from 2017) does not. Easily seen difference.

And Santa Fe158, yes, : the Junior has much smaller drive wheels than the other (2017) version which makes it look smaller overall. 

I went on Ebay and there are various Berkshires for sale, including the ones we are discussing. You can assess the visual differences fairly easily there. 

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Could be, I can't imagine they have new tooling for the LC+ 2.0 shell, I have to believe it's the same shell as the PE sets.

I believe I figured out the size difference in your examples... your first locomotive listed at 20" is the Polar Express Berkshire which has the longer cartoonish cowcatcher to match what was seen in the movie.  The Berkshire Jr. product you listed at 19" is one of the standard ones, which has a more traditional looking Nickel Plate Road horizontal slat style pilot and a cast coupler nub.  I'm not sure if that would account for the entire inch difference, but the PE cowcatchers do stick out quite far from the front of the locomotive.  That being said, the Berkshire page in the 2019 catalog gives a general dimension of 20" for both types in the description, but I believe that may be false.

Probably not a big deal in the long run though now that we've had that debate