Lionel NYC Dreyfuss & 20th Century cars

If your are referring to locomotives in your question, Smithsonian was produced in ‘92 ......and that’s a brass model. They produced a Dreyfus Hudson ( 6-28084 ) which had TMCC/ Oddesy much later, around 2002-2004 something like that......Pat

I would love a Legacy or VL Dreyfus Hudson, been waiting for many years , and yes the passenger cars to !!!

Alex

The Dreyfuss Hudson would not have pulled the cars in 1948 colors. They were long demoted and likely stripped of their streamlining by then.

I know for a lot of people its Lionel or nothing but the last run of the MTH Dreyfuss is one of the best done so far. Paint is surely the best and detail is not far behind 3rd Rail. Same for the 18" cars and can be had in both 1938 and 1940 colors.

Pete

Alex M posted:

I would love a Legacy or VL Dreyfus Hudson, been waiting for many years , and yes the passenger cars to !!!

 

Alex

Exactly Alex...!!  If the last one they did was back in early 2000’s then they’ll have done 3 iterations of the SP Daylight GS-4 (‘08, ‘17, ‘20) before having released an updated Dreyfuss...  how is that possible?

As I have stated on a prior post, if they were to do Dreyfus Hudson's, I would buy as many as I could. I just love Hudson, and the Dreyfus is the Holy Grail for my railroad aspirations.

It has been said that this would be a great thing, and a few people who I have talked to about this particular engine would love to see it. I think that it will come in time, whether it is in the V2 catalog, or 4 years down the road, it will come and be all new tooling(since you all know the story behind the last ones, and if you don't, let's just say those aren't the toolings you're looking for).

Regardless of what you like, Lionel, MTH, Atlas, GGD, whatever, they(meaning any one of them) have to hit the mark on this when they make it. As Pete(Norton said), MTH did a great job(from the ones I saw on YouTube).

Norton posted:

The Dreyfuss Hudson would not have pulled the cars in 1948 colors. They were long demoted and likely stripped of their streamlining by then.

I know for a lot of people its Lionel or nothing but the last run of the MTH Dreyfuss is one of the best done so far. Paint is surely the best and detail is not far behind 3rd Rail. Same for the 18" cars and can be had in both 1938 and 1940 colors.

Pete

MTH has made a bunch of Dreyfuss Hudsons over the years with PS2 and PS3. If you're not wedded to one manufacturer (I'm not, I buy what I like no mater who made it and have both DCS and TMCC) then the MTH model is good looking and a nice runner. So, like Pete suggested, pick up a MTH Premier model. You won't be disappointed.

Here's the 28084 on my old layout pulling the 15" cars that came out around the same time. Two chuffs per rev was about the only drawback to this version IMO.

Jim

I agree the scale MTH Dreyfuss is very nice. I have a PS-2 that I bought used several years ago before I added command to my layout and really like it visually. It runs great conventionally. I ultimately chose Legacy for my layout, largely due to the presence of whistle steam on Legacy locos. In the ongoing absence of a Legacy Dreyfuss, I’ve given thought to converting mine from PS-2 to TMCC, but I would want to keep the sounds and get rid of the tether. I assume this would run, what, $500+ or so?  That has always seemed like a lot to put into an old loco that still wouldn’t have Legacy or whistle steam. So, my wait for one to show up in the catalog continues .....

I’m also waiting on a Legacy NKP Hudson, most likely a brass hybrid.  I don’t know if they will ever do that one, but Murphy’s Law suggests that if it does ever get done, it will appear in the same catalog as the Dreyfuss for the sole purpose of tormenting my credit card.

I’m on the hook Day 1 if either ever shows up in a catalog. 

Jim Policastro posted:

Here's the 28084 on my old layout pulling the 15" cars that came out around the same time. Two chuffs per rev was about the only drawback to this version IMO.

Jim

Beautiful layout Jim!  Thanks for sharing!

Jim Policastro posted:

Here's the 28084 on my old layout pulling the 15" cars that came out around the same time. Two chuffs per rev was about the only drawback to this version IMO.

Jim

Jim, That was a beautiful layout.  I hope your health is holding up and you're enjoying the new layout we just saw in OGR.

I remember emailing you several years ago after it was in an OGR article photo of yours, to ask about that Fairbanks-Morse direct coaler in this video.  You said someone custom built it years ago.  With your change in layout, any chance that has become surplus and you would sell it now?  I need that model for the West Chicago engine facility of my Chicago and North Western!  I am somewhat "price insensitive" given the time it would take to build one, and fact I've yet to see one anywhere else at trains shows or other places.  If you could reply to my email, would appreciate it: don.thieman@gmail.com.  Thanks so much.

Jim, great layout, nice running too. I still have to pop my nose in the new OGR run as I haven't opened it yet. Been busy with things and haven't had time to sit down and enjoy some minutes.

BHalfway posted:

With the release of the 2020 V1 catalog I’m left with the burning question of when they’ll produce this set again.  Don’t get me wrong... I think Lionel did a great job with this catalog... But I’ve been waiting for them to produce this set for what seems like forever.  The last time I saw it advertised was in 2008 I believe and from what I can gather it was never produced...  I know the 18” aluminum cars weren’t for sure.  Was the Smithsonian version the most recent production of the Dreyfuss?  And when was the last 20th Century cars with the blue pin-stripping produced?  Thanks for any comments

I believe Lionel doesn't have "their" own tooling. The scale one they did back in the early 2000's,  if I'm not mistaken, that was part of the MTH/Lionel Lawsuit. Lionel would have to cut new tooling for that engine. If they do end up making it, expect to see it as with a 1600$+ price tag as a Brass Hybrid.

Id also like them to redo the Commodore Vanderbilt before they did a Dreyfuss. They could cram a bunch of features in that bathtub of a shell.

Right on the tooling issue Bruk. I know I'd like to see the Commodore again as well.

You guys are better off sending me one of Lionel's early 2000's version of the scale Dreyfuss for a Legacy conversion....

I went down to my LTS to put in my order for the new catalog and I said to Tony about this engine. I said to him that a bunch of us would like to see this done by Lionel, and I'm scared to say I wonder if they'd do it as a Vision Line Engine. Tony said it would be one heck of a marketing idea, and it would sell. I replied that I'd rather have the Legacy version since I said already that however many they made, I'd buy everyone of them(or as much as I could afford).

Jim Policastro posted:

Here's the 28084 on my old layout pulling the 15" cars that came out around the same time. Two chuffs per rev was about the only drawback to this version IMO.

Jim

Looks like a keeper to me! Great layout. The engine and tender seem to have nice close coupling. Did they come that way or did you adjust it? Same question with the passenger cars - they seem to have pretty good close coupling as well. Did you do any alternations with them?

Bruk posted:

BHalfway posted:

With the release of the 2020 V1 catalog I’m left with the burning question of when they’ll produce this set again.  Don’t get me wrong... I think Lionel did a great job with this catalog... But I’ve been waiting for them to produce this set for what seems like forever.  The last time I saw it advertised was in 2008 I believe and from what I can gather it was never produced...  I know the 18” aluminum cars weren’t for sure.  Was the Smithsonian version the most recent production of the Dreyfuss?  And when was the last 20th Century cars with the blue pin-stripping produced?  Thanks for any comments

I believe Lionel doesn't have "their" own tooling. The scale one they did back in the early 2000's,  if I'm not mistaken, that was part of the MTH/Lionel Lawsuit. Lionel would have to cut new tooling for that engine. If they do end up making it, expect to see it as with a 1600$+ price tag as a Brass Hybrid.

Id also like them to redo the Commodore Vanderbilt before they did a Dreyfuss. They could cram a bunch of features in that bathtub of a shell.

The Lionel diecast Dreyfus has the same frame as the early J3s, 5444 and 5433. The shells will drop right onto the frames. The drivers screw on the the axles just like the other J3s and the Pullmor Hudsons. The 2 lobe chuff cam can be swapped out with a 4 lobe cam easily for 4 chuffs. If there are any MTH parts it would only be the shell, the rest is all Lionel.

Why wait for a $2000 engine when you can get one for 500 bucks or less and upgrade it for a few hundred more?

Pete

I’m converting two Lionel and one Williams. 

Lionel will get , ERR CRUISE M’s, customized fan driven smoke units, super chuffer and chuff generator. 

Williams will get , ERR cruise commander , large steam sounds,customized fan driven smoke unit, super chuffer and chuff generator. 

I’ll post video’s as I complete them. 

Alex 

breezinup posted:

Looks like a keeper to me! Great layout. The engine and tender seem to have nice close coupling. Did they come that way or did you adjust it? Same question with the passenger cars - they seem to have pretty good close coupling as well. Did you do any alternations with them?

Thanks. No alterations at all. Despite the close coupling, they seemed to run great on curves down to O42 - probably tighter but O42 was my minimum.

Jim

Norton posted:

The Dreyfuss Hudson would not have pulled the cars in 1948 colors. They were long demoted and likely stripped of their streamlining by then.

I know for a lot of people its Lionel or nothing but the last run of the MTH Dreyfuss is one of the best done so far. Paint is surely the best and detail is not far behind 3rd Rail. Same for the 18" cars and can be had in both 1938 and 1940 colors.

Pete

This got me wondering about the de-streamlining dates. So, per Know Thy Hudsons:

J1e 5344 de-streamlined 1939 - the original Commodore Vanderbilt version; re-de-streamlined 10/45 (after a wreck, I think) - the later Century-style streamlining.

The Century-style J3a's (5445 - 5454) were de-streamlined between 3/47 and 1/48.

The two Empire State J3a's were de-streamlined 6/49 (5429) and 11/50 (5426). I have a special fondness for the ESE Hudsons, as they are the only streamlined Hudsons that remained such after I was born (4/48). Not that I was ever anywhere near them.

So, the ESE streamlining outlasted the Century streamlining, and on 5426, nearly made it into 1951. 

Alex M posted:

I’m converting two Lionel and one Williams. 

Lionel will get , ERR CRUISE M’s, customized fan driven smoke units, super chuffer and chuff generator. 

Williams will get , ERR cruise commander , large steam sounds,customized fan driven smoke unit, super chuffer and chuff generator. 

I’ll post video’s as I complete them. 

Alex 

And the Lionel will be bulletproof when done.....I’m doing a couple too Alex.....with Pete’s cam lobe and his optic sensor, easily upgraded to today’s standards.......5433, 5444, & 5452 are some of the finest chassis Lionel produced to date...chassis can be stripped to a bare block wheels and all with just basic hand tools......and with Pittman power, near indestructible........now the Williams....that Mubachi is landfill quality.......but, that’s for another topic........Pat

Jim Policastro posted:

breezinup posted:

Looks like a keeper to me! Great layout. The engine and tender seem to have nice close coupling. Did they come that way or did you adjust it? Same question with the passenger cars - they seem to have pretty good close coupling as well. Did you do any alternations with them?

Thanks. No alterations at all. Despite the close coupling, they seemed to run great on curves down to O42 - probably tighter but O42 was my minimum.

Jim

If it would do 036 I'd get one. I've ran an MTH Scale streamlined hudson (CNW E4) on 036 and it ran fine. 

Lionel seems to savor a lot of time before rereleasing Hudsons, especially compared to other high end steam locomotives.

It was 20 years between the time they made the gold 700E and the Vision Line 700E (773’s don’t really count in this case).

Lionel made the ESE in LEGACY 10 years after the CC2 version came out.

And just recently, the LEGACY non-streamlined J3A’s were released, about 18 years after the original TMCC models debuted.

Maybe a LEGACY Dreyfuss is on the horizon, as it’s the only one of the Lionel China produced Hudsons that hasn’t been reissued with LEGACY. If it did, I imagine it’d get the same treatment as the ESE with different wheel and tender details.

I know it is the biggest thing talked about to Ryan other than quality issues(that probably is ahead of the Dreyfus and Hudson's in general now). The only other thing that I could think that would push the Dreyfus further away would be a reissue of the L3 Mohawks. I know that the first was ripped from the Reading T1 though I don't know the gist of frame size and such.

With the current catalog I think there was only a few New York Central offerings(VL Reefer & caboose, not sure what else). If the Dreyfus isn't on the drawing board(or was), does this mean the L3 would be? I know that the L2 toolings were sold at auction. So what else would be the offering in the later catalog? Maybe they'll make a LionChief Dreyfus before we see anything else.