Lionel Polar Express Loco is small......

No not really, it's a set engine. They run well but smoke output is poor.

AMCDave - Yep, its a tiny thing isn't it?  But it looks good alone, around a tree, and the grandkids don't care that its not scale.  I figure that is what Lionel intended.  But I agree - you won't see me running it on the layout.  On the other hand, with that, and the Lionel reindeer set and a bit of other stuff, they absolutely love it!

BTW - will not be able to make the Lionel sale this Saturday at their warehouse.  Hope you get to go, though.  As for me, I had promised my wife to take her to something she got tickets for that morning.  Probably just as well - discounts or no, i would spend way too much.  

It runs great plus I can hear the bell.

Hi Dave, I always thought that the PE set was built with perfect dimensions for it's intended purpose.  It is a great under the tree train set, but as Jim stated above the smoke unit sucks.

If you do a search on the Polar Express you will find a number of cures for this problem, or you can run it as the toy it is ment to be.

Per popular demand Lionel did produce a scale set that is a real looker, unfortunately they are hard to find in this market. I also think they are O-72 so that may be an issue with a tree display.

Good luck and have fun.

I agree that it is small but I also agree that it's perfect for a small tree loop.

We put my son's UP fast freight set under the tree.  It's a Jr. Berk too. 

It appears to me that the  Jr. PE is based on the same generic tooling with some unique added details like a different cow catcher etc...

Just the same.  It looks just right under the tree!

I agree it's perfect under the tree.....and the loco itself is a good looker. I will have to put it with my MTH Baby Turbine and first issue RK FT units....they should all look good together!! The grandkids will love it!

Just curious...how does the PE Berk + tender compare in size to a PW 726/736?

The loco is slightly smaller in all dimensions, the tender matches a 2466W in all dimensions.  Thus, they are proportioned quite well for a starter set(not like a 773 and a 773W!).

Hello guys and gals.........

I had one of those Union Pacific starter set Berkshire and when took it out of the box, I was surprised how small it is.  I expected to be the same size as a old 736 and i don't understand why lionel could have used the old 736 as the tooling is all paid for but they invested in new tooling for the tiny Berk.  The starter set berk does run really well,looks good, but the drivers well it wobbles and the siderods holes are really big so there plenty of slop there.  If can find it for good price like 150 dollars for new one then its worth the price.  I like the early Santa Fe version but with the TINY can motor i pass on (the later versions) came with larger motor which is better.

the woman who love the S.F.#5021

Tiffany

You're wise in passing on the earliest PE versions Tiffany as Lionel had at that point obviously not envisioned how successful the PE would become and all the addon cars they'd eventually make for it. I know from experience those original small motors were not able to pull a full consist of PE add ons without overheating.

Well, that's one way to get some honest smoke out of the PE!!!

I have 2 Junior Berks (not PE, but same engine/tender with less pronounced cow catcher) and a 726 replica from WBB.  I also have a 2056 PW Hudson which was similar to the original 726.  The juniors are noticeably smaller.

I tried running MTH O27 madison cars with one of the junior Berks and it looked ridiculous.

Not to muddy the waters, but the junior Berk and junior Hudson probably warrant their own category.  They are smaller than what, for example, WBB markets as their O27 engines.

Over the years, for example, Lionel has put out 3 different sized Berks with the Nickel Plate road.....scale, traditional (726 sized), and junior.

The scale berk and cars are supposedly rated for O-54, but I don't know how good they would look on that small a curve.  They do look really good on O-72.

The traditional set must be the single most sucessful train set ever, and I think that they did an excellent job in providing a reasonably-priced set.  As for the smoke, I don't know how popular it would be with non-train parents to have an engine that smokes up the room.

Andy

So it's small.  No big deal.

Pete

Scale is so way over rated, enough said. Just enjoy running them choo choo's.

If memory serves, I think the semi-scale version is actually more proportioned like the Berk featured in the animated movie, as opposed to the scale model; same with the semi-scale passenger cars.

The best thing about the small size is that it works fine on the included O36 curves.  I love both the scale and traditional sized versions and run both.

hello guys and gals..........

ogaugeguy has a good point there and makes lot of sense to me because perhaps lionel made the engine smaller in size to be easy pick up by a child and not as heavy too.

the woman who loves the S.F.#5021

Tiffany

I tried to make it clear it was NOT a complaint. I did say I was surprised at the size because the starter set 0-8-0 I bought around the same time is bigger in height and 'bulk' and fits in with my MTH Rail King steam VERY well. I thought the PE would be similar. 

I might also add I was surprised how nice (and small) the PE Berk is.....the rods look like nickel in place of cheesy bright chrome, the leading and trailing trucks have a nice gunmetal finish, and the separate detail added to the boiler is nice.  

I don't understand how surprised is only bad......

I agree.  I expected it to be bigger and I didn't view its size as good or bad - just interesting.  It is a very good size for around the trees on O-27 - not everything looks good of that tight of a diameter.   AMCDave has a point about its quality, too.  It is very nicely done -- not an upper end loco by any means, but when you look at it, you don't immediately think "cheap." 

No issue Kenn....I just didn't want folks to think I was complaining as we have enough of that!!  Just running trains while I am between layouts is great! No matter how small the layout!!

Ditto on all your points AMCDave!!

Something that surprised me about both the traditional PE and the Hogwarts Express passenger cars is that the roofs appear to be held on just like those on the "Baby Madison" cars of the MPC/Fundimensions era.  The roof and window glazing are molded in one piece, and the glazing portion has a couple of thicker areas on each side that protrude into window openings in the car side to lock the roof in place.  Considering the many negative comments I've read about the difficulty in removing the roofs to get at light bulbs inside the MPC/Fundimensions cars, seeing the same design being used by Lionel LLC was something of a shock.  (I think I'm correct about the car designs, but I'm working from memory since all my goodies are packed preparatory to an upcoming move.  If I'm inadvertently maligning either set of cars, by all means say so.)  Has anyone experimented in removing the PE or Hogwarts car roofs?

I too would like a how to on roof removal as I'd like to put a red LED in the OBS car....it REALLY needs one....that jewel is not cutting it!!!

If the PE coach roof comes off like the MPC era baby Madisons, then you need look no further than page 66 of the current issue of OGR (Run 261) for instuctions (the article is a how-to on adding tethers between cars to eliminate flickering lights).

Andy

Agree....my comments that there are 3 different sizes of Lionel Berkshires is not a condemnation of the smallest juniors.  In fact, they look great on my 42" curves which I'm guessing is similar to a scale Berk on 72" curves.

My only point was to caution others to be careful mixing and matching "semi-scale" and "O-27" stuff from different manufacturers.  For example, MTH's O27 Madisons are much bigger than my old O27 streamliners from the UP Anniversary set.  Both O27, but 20% difference in height and length.

One of the dangers of 'O' scale when you first get into the scale.....I found that there were many 'scales' when I came into O from HO.  Not a negative...but a learning curve!!!

Here you go:

http://www.jcstudiosinc.com/BlogShowThread?id=663&categoryId=

Pete

Those cars have been made nearly continuously since 1973 in one form or another.  The construction is nearly identical, but the tooling has been modified to accommodate different trucks over the years, & cleaned up to show good detail.

The secret to getting these apart is to squeeze the windows in from the bottom or sides instead of trying to reach over the top... hold the car in front of you with the side windows facing to your left & right between your hands.

Press in on the "notched/tabbed" rear windows with both index fingers using a pushing up motion at the same time to "unlock" the raised tabs from the windows. Switch to the front windows and do the same. Repeat on back windows again... usually by this time you have opened up the roof enough to get a grip on the roof panel and raise it straight up & out of the car.

Don't mar the finish by using wedges or screwdrivers to pry the roof up or bulge the car sides out - it just isn't necessary.  Oh, and the PE observation has screws in the overhang that need to be removed first.

Thanks guys!!!

Maybe not for hulking brutes  but for the rest of us it sure helps.  Using wood craft sticks prevents finish damage.

Pete

Dave, my solution early on was to find a MTH RK berk.  I lucked out finding a Pere Marquette version numbered 1222.  Some day hope to find another tender shell to re-letter "Polar Express" or just re do the original tender.  Since this is DCS I can "proto cast" the dialog from the move through to the engine.

Now I took this tack not just because of the size but at the time of original release, both local toy train shops had had multiple failures of the units they ran on their store layouts.

The roof removal worked well.......except for the OBS car!!! What a pain!! The two screws under the roof pretty much inaccessible by any means......poorly engineered at best. I did get the roof off but only because I have access to some specialized tools. 

  But thanks for a good start.

Just a thought, but did you remove the platform piece first?  It's quite easy to get at the screws without the platform in situ. 

My platform railing will not stay on at all so keeping it on is a bigger task!! Just touching it and it falls off. I may have to glue it on at some point.

The Observation car came with assembly/dis-assembly instruction "73-1960-251" dated 5/05.

Those show what is clearly visible by looking at the car. But using good grade tools you still can't access those two screws next to the end wall. I used a mini 1/4" rachect with a mini Phillips bit.....but with regular precision Phillips you can't get to them.

BUT ...I have finished lighting the OBS tail light. I used fiber optic line in place of a LED or bulb. I did not have a LED on hand that would work...and a bulb might burn out soon....so fiber optic worked well.

Thanks