Lionel's New SD40 (Clarification needed)

You are not looking at the right pages. Pages 12-13 show all the railroad specific features.

These photos are labeled as just for illustrations of the paint schemes not what the final production body will be. It is just a filler model. The final SD40 will be accurate.

Andrew

Andrew,

  I looked at pages 12-13 and as I said I understand there are road specific features, but it doesn't mention other improvements.  So I guess I know the answer, I'm just calling Lionel out for making the engines look better than they really are in the photos. 

If they are changing the tooling why can't they at least add the self centering pilot?  They are using it on the ES44 and it looks much better and makes it easy for 3RS people like myself to make improvements.  I'm frustrated because I really prefer Lionels great sounds, smooth operation, Legacy control and these new road specific details because of the realism, but its all nullified (IMO) with the gap, big coupler and short handrails.   Sorry everyone, I know I'm griping, but if Lionel is trying to be more accurate, why not start with the obvious.  Just sayin.

Rich

It has to have a self-centering pilot, since it operates on O-54 like the other diesel locomotives.

Those are just generic O gauge models.

Andrew

Mike Reagan did indicate that they will have fixed pilots, in relation to the new ES44AC's. The catalog illustrations look like the older American SD40's from the 80's edited with PhotoShop to look a bit more accurate to the intended final product.

This is good news if it is true.  The reason I say if is because the GP35 photo shows a fixed pilot but the actual engine is not.  However they show min O-31 for GP35 and the SD40 is min O-54.  That would suggest the pilot does not swing.   I would think because it is such a unique feature that they would have explicitly listed it as they did with the ES44. 

Rich - I agree the pictures in the catalog definately appear to show either a fixed or self centering pilot design.  It would make sense to address the pilots since Lionel is using new tooling and the price is the same as the ES44AC's.

Maybe someone from Lionel will chime in and answer your question.  

Listen to the Notch 6 Catalog podcast that just came out today. Mike and I spend a good ten min talking about the new features on this engine. You can hear straight from him about what's new. 

So according to Mike Reagan these will have the Vision style pivoting pilots. Good news.

Good to see them making improvements with the new tooling.

Yep, I just finished listening myself and he clearly states they will have the pivoting pilot like the ES44.  That is great news and probably just an oversight not to mention it in the catalog. 

Thanks for the link Notch6

No problem Rich. I need to get you to come on the show one of these days. It's all about informing, having fun, and creating a bit of chaos in the process. 

I, too, heard Mike Reagan refer to fixed pilots for the newly-announced SD-40's, which is good news.

But I'm afraid I'm confused about the distinction between a "pivoting" pilot and a "swiveling" pilot.

On a "pivoting" pilot, is it only the engine-wheel truck that turns (i.e., "pivots") while the actual front pilot frame (including the coupler attached to it and the lower side-steps in front of the truck) remains fixed (to the rest of the engine frame)?

Also, is this the same thing as a "self-centering" pilot?  Or is that something entirely different?  (This feature is listed for the Lionel ES44AC, but it isn't clear to me that it means a fixed pilot.)

RTR Mark 

Mark,

What people mean by "pivoting" pilot in this context is one that attaches to the engine's frame, but that is engineered to "pivot" if necessary in tighter turns so as not to derail whatever is coupled to the engine. That's a clever design and a cosmetic improvement over the traditional way three-rail diesels address tight turns by having the pilot mounted to the trucks and moving through the turns. Lionel came up with the pivoting pilot on the ES44 models. It's very well done, and right out of the box, gives the model a more realistic appearance (but no I don't own one). It's also a much easier point of departure for rigidly fixing the pilot to the frame so that it doesn't move at all (just like the real thing):

The full fixed pilot allows modeling the handrails all the way down to step wells, but probably limits the model to 072 curves (the minimum for this Atlas version I upgraded from truck-mounted to fixed pilots).

RM

Mark,

  From my understanding the term "fixed pilot" from Lionel isn't really a fixed pilot but a pivoting pilot like the ES44.  It will still move separately from the trucks and have no gap, but means that the handrails will not be full length.  That's reasonable and ok with me since I can easily "fix" the pilot and add full length handrails, and replace the coupler.  I understand why they can not really fix the pilot since it would mean a minimum of O-72 curve which would narrow the market.  The hardest part of fixing a pilot like I did with the DD35 is filling the gap and extending the pilot.  This would make it much easier. 

Mike talked about creating modular designs which might imply they could have a true fixed pilot version/option with scale coupler and full length handrails in the future by replacing the pilot "module".  At least this is what I wish they would do.  This would be better than the MTH proto 3/2 because it would not be 2-rail and you would not have to replace the wheels for 3-rail operation. 

My concern is the Fuel Tank. Will the Loco have a full scale fuel tank? The Sd40-2 issued recently did NOT have the full scale fuel tank.

Page 13 states that these engines will have a "Prototypical-sized fuel tank" either 3,200 or 4,000 gallon.

This is going to be one awesome engine! 

I'm definitely getting both Chessie units. Hopefully, this will be the first of several runs for this model. I'd really like to see Western Maryland, C&O and B&O SD40s in future runs.

Don't all the Lionel ES44's have the pivoting pilot?  I'm referring the NS heritage ones and the ones that were delivered in December.  I'm still trying to figure out why the 30% increase in preorder price for the diesels?  I just want to know what I would be getting for the extra money.  

I wonder if Lionel is going to recognize that there were differences in the same model for the same road name based upon build dates...

For instance, B&O (Chessie) #7500 was built in 1969 and had 2 high brake cylinders on their Flexicoil trucks and a left-side roof-mounted bell...

...whereas B&O (Chessie) #7593, which was built in 1967, has a single high brake cylinder on 2 truck sideframes and 2 low brake cylinders on the other 2 sideframes and a frame-mounted bell...

Cab #7493 is pictured but was eventually renumbered 7593 when the Chessie System was created in 1973. All Chessie SD40s were renumbered in the 7500s.

The rear hand brake wheel is correct for both.

Simple economics is the reason for the price increase. Manufacturing Chinese wages will increase by 18% in 2015. Expect the trains that are manufactured in China to continue to increase by 30% next year as well. Our trains are only going to get more expensive as we head into the future. The only way to prevent that reality is to stop manufacturing in China and move somewhere else that has lower manufacturing wages. 

There are 3 alternatives:

1. If you own the tooling and machinery, then you can completely move manufacturing to Vietnam, Laos, Philippines or any low-cost country.

2. If you own only the tooling, then the Chinese will continue manufacturing with copied/modified tooling and distribute by themselves under different brand name with re-designed packaging.

3. If you don't own the tooling (only immaterial property, such as CAD-drawings and patents), then you have to find a new investor, who is crazy enough to set up a factory with new machinery and tooling somewhere in the Subsaharian Africa (...or in Cuba since relations have improved).

An SD40-2 and I would have been interested.  For SD40s Atlas does just fine thank you.