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Folks, Charlie Ro played Santa Claus in our house this year... as the new ES44AC's arrived right on Christmas Eve afternoon!  Doesn't get much better than that!  

Candidly speaking, I was tired of watching prices spiral into the stratosphere for the Vision Line BNSF ES44, so I was really glad to see Lionel offer the BNSF road-name in their array of new, non-diecast ES44's.  On the surface though, these locomotives appear to be the exact same tooling as Lionel's prior run of ES44's about a year ago.  I bought a pair of CN models back then, and they were about $150 less per locomotive.  So what gives with the price increase on this go 'round???    My first guess is Lionel testing the waters to see how much they can get for these puppies.  A few bucks over the prior year's models and I would have written that off to Chinese labor.  But $150 per locomotive  (which is roughly 38-40% over the prior run) smells more like Lionel pushing the price envelope on these to see what the market will bear.    And I suppose we're the fools for buying this stuff.  

However, I had two motives in mind when I decided to splurge a bit for these models. 

First, I wanted a second BSNF unit to pair up with the original #6431 BNSF Vision Line ES44 (diecast) that I snagged a few years ago from a forum member.  The natural counterpart to BNSF #6341 is of course its die-cast twin-brother, BNSF #6436, reportedly produced in smaller quantities.  And ironically enough, one just recently did make an appearance on eBay for the insane amount of $1800.   But there's no way on God's green Earth I was gonna pay anything near that for ONE locomotive, when I paid less than that for all three of the units I purchased from this production run.  Perhaps a lot of other folks are thinking along similar lines, 'cause the BNSF unit from this 2015 production run appears to already be a popular choice.  And the dealers who do have one or two extra units are already placing a premium on them.  One forum sponsor is now asking the $650 MSRP for all of these 2015 ES44AC models, and another has a modest $30 premium on the BNSF model over their regular selling-price of the other 2015 ES44AC models.   

Anyway, the street-prices will be what they are.  So here are a few quick iPhone pics of the nice models I purchased...  Enjoy!!!

Lionel_ES44_BNSF1

Lionel_ES44_BNSF2

The "golden swoosh" is a nice variation, and makes for an eye-catching MU configuration when paired with its Vision Line "big brother" (in terms of weight and price).  Given the $530 I paid at its pre-order price, this was a much more cost-effective way to achieve a double-headed BNSF ES44AC configuration.     Perhaps in a few years when prices retreat from the stratosphere on the BNSF Vision Line models, I may add a 3rd BNSF unit, #6436, to the roster.  Or maybe Lionel will even issue another non-diecast BNSF ES44 in their 2016 catalog.    Hey, we can all dream, right???  Until then, here's my newly double-headed BNSF configuration, which should have plenty of pulling-power for my needs.

Lionel_ES44_BNSF3

Lionel_ES44_BNSF4

 

I should have stopped at just the one BNSF model.  However, earlier this year I took delivery of the Sunset/GGD El Capitan cars, and thought... Geee, wouldn't it be cool to head that train up with some "modern" motive power instead of the purely prototypical F3 configurations that are most common.  Well... that line of thinking set me back another grand or so for the two Lionel Santa Fe powered ES44's.   Pricey for sure... but it's still less than the price of a complete contingent of Santa Fe F3 A's and B's -- although I admit an F3 ABBBA configuration heading up a long El Capitan train would certainly look pretty cool too.

Anyway, here are a couple of pics of Santa Fe #440 and #444...

Lionel_ES44_SF1

Lionel_ES44_SF2

Lionel_ES44_SF3

Lionel_ES44_SF4

 

As for features... these models are nicely equipped.  Both the BNSF and Santa Fe units have silver trucks, which really accents the nice detail on them.  And although I haven't been able to test my units on the track yet, the steps leading up to the pilot platform seem to move independently of the trucks themselves.  So while they are not fixed pilots, it's certainly a step in the right direction from the more common approach of having the coupler, pilot-steps and trucks move together as one integrated piece.  Minimum curve as stated in the specs is O-54.  Nice!!!

There's been some question about placement of the headlights for different road-names... and I'll leave that to the experts.  All I know is that both the BNSF and Santa Fe models which I purchased have the headlights over the cab windshield.  And they look absolutely fine there to me.  For the price, I suppose these models should be as accurate as possible to the prototype (within reason).  But then again... these are not Vision Line models either.

As I said earlier, these are very pricey locomotives for sure.  And when I first saw the $650 MSRP when they were catalog'd, I gulped.  But when I looked at the alternatives on the market to what I was trying to accomplish, these 3 new ES44's turned out to be a cost-effective way to achieve what I had in mind.

If you're on the fence about purchasing one of these models, I wouldn't wait too long.  Sellers are already in game-playing mode with the BNSF model.  And I suspect that model will disappear before we see across-the-board, year-end inventory clearance sales applying to these jewels.

 

David

 

 

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Last edited by Rocky Mountaineer
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Both models look great.  The silver trucks and fuel tanks make a nice contrast, especially on the BNSF model.

I have 2 SD40s ordered and they should be the next BTO engines to get a thorough look-see. These may carry an even higher price tag since they're brand new tooling, although the SD40 is not as popular as the ES44.

Here is the prototype (It's actually an ES44DC)...

BNSF 7695

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My guess regarding the price hike is that Lionel knew that many already own the Norfolk Heritage units. The prototypical way of running these seem to be a Heritage paint scheme at the lead and a one or two of the NS black units right behind. Thus, they knew that folks would pay almost anything to complete their consist.

>>>I bought a pair of CN models back then, and they were about $150 less per locomotive.  So what gives with the price increase on this go 'round???    My first guess is Lionel testing the waters to see how much they can get for these puppies.  A few bucks over the prior year's models and I would have written that off to Chinese labor.  But $150 per locomotive  (which is roughly 38-40% over the prior run) smells more like Lionel pushing the price envelope on these to see what the market will bear.    And I suppose we're the fools for buying this stuff.  <<<<

 

If you suspected the reason for the increase, and you still bought it , does anyone need to answer that?.

I'll respond anyway.. Maybe you, surely not me... Between the high fives and chuckles, One can only imagine what the folks who read your post at Lionel are thinking.   

Joe

c.sam posted:

How do the Lionel models compare with MTH's in level of detail?  Seems I recall folks saying the MTH diesels had a slight edge on Lionel in this department... 

Having all 3 mth plastic ,Lionel plastic es44s and Lionel diecast es44s .. The diecast detail is way better  then the mth and the Lionel in plastic. The fans on top and cab don't compair to the mth  in the plastic ones. In four years will the mth one be running is the question!

Last edited by jojofry
c.sam posted:

How do the Lionel models compare with MTH's in level of detail?  Seems I recall folks saying the MTH diesels had a slight edge on Lionel in this department... 

Last week Pats Trains held a dealer cost sale on anything in stock,.  I had not bought much of anything from MTH in years.  I took a chance and used the sale to order a set of MTH A-B-A  E6's    

Not wanting to hijack this thread, go to the sale thread and read my post  with photo if you're interested.  All I can say is I'm very happy with my purchase.

Joe

Last edited by JC642
bluestrain posted:

thanks for the excellent review and photo's of the new BNSF....I just got mine today so I know what it looks like...

I have one question though,  why does one engine have black BNSF letters and the other (new one) have gold letters....

I think I know the answer, but would like to hear from the rest of the members..

 

 

 

 

Black swoosh is the diecast one made awhile ago 2010 I believe.  

bluestrain posted:

thanks for the excellent review and photo's of the new BNSF....I just got mine today so I know what it looks like...

I have one question though,  why does one engine have black BNSF letters and the other (new one) have gold letters....

I think I know the answer, but would like to hear from the rest of the members..

 

 

 

 

The engine on the left (#6431 w/ Black Lettering) is a die-cast ES44 made a few years back (circa 2010-2011).  

David,

Nice review. I just got my KCS Southern Belle - looks great and I might have to add the "Grey KCS" version to complete the set. Based on the pictures and your comments BNSF or Santa Fe might be up for consideration as well. I don't have either road - your pictures have changed my buying habits - Well, the BTO policy has done that as well.

Great review

Chris Dunn posted:

Thanks, Frank and others. I understood that our beloved Santa Fe departed before these engines appeared, but I was wondering whether BNSF ever did a heritage type Santa Fe warbonnet ES44AC.

Chris

It is not like the Santa Fe is GONE. Yes, the Santa Fe is part of a larger entity now, but BNSF stills stands for Burlington Northern and Santa Fe railway, or some of us like to think of it as the Burlington, Northern & Santa Fe railway.  While the bonnets are not now being used on new locomotives,  bonnets shall return sometime in the future in some form and probably with much fanfare.  

WBC posted:
Chris Dunn posted:

Thanks, Frank and others. I understood that our beloved Santa Fe departed before these engines appeared, but I was wondering whether BNSF ever did a heritage type Santa Fe warbonnet ES44AC.

Chris

It is not like the Santa Fe is GONE. Yes, the Santa Fe is part of a larger entity now, but BNSF stills stands for Burlington Northern and Santa Fe railway, or some of us like to think of it as the Burlington, Northern & Santa Fe railway.  While the bonnets are not now being used on new locomotives,  bonnets shall return sometime in the future in some form and probably with much fanfare.  

"but BNSF stills stands for Burlington Northern and Santa Fe railway"

No, it doesn't, at least not anymore. In 2005, the name was officially-changed to just "BNSF Railway." That's the direction BNSF has moved in and that's I think why Doug is telling you in the post just above that Santa Fe is long gone and you are not likely to see any warbonnet heritage paint jobs.

If it makes you feel any better, I guess the parent company "Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corporation" (of which the railroad is a wholly-owned subsidiary), at least still exits. That was formed for purposes of  acquiring and merging the ATSF and BN and is actually what in 2009 Berkshire Hathaway acquired controlling interest in.

RM

JC642 posted:

 

...

If you suspected the reason for the increase, and you still bought it , does anyone need to answer that?.

... Between the high fives and chuckles, One can only imagine what the folks who read your post at Lionel are thinking.   

...

And I would only caution them not to break out the champagne too quickly.  While these are lovely models indeed, even at the new price-point these units were more cost-effective than some of the alternatives in the market right now.

But that was NOT the case with the recently catalog'd NS SD60E models that were also priced at $650 MSRP (with corresponding $525-$550 street prices).  Lionel lost three orders from me on those, because the MTH Premier offerings were approx. $100 less expensive (per locomotive) for basically the same class of product.

That's why it's so great to have competitive offerings in the marketplace.  

David

I own 2 Lionel ES44's, Conrail and Pennsylvania and they are my 2 of my favorite engines in my collection.  For the latest Lionel ES44's I had pre-ordered the BNSF version back in March.  A few months ago I changed my mind and decided I wanted to give the MTH ES44's a chance so I ordered both BNSF cab numbers for almost the same price as one Lionel ES44!  They'll go well with my SD70ace.  

I have the Union Pacific ES44AC from the last run. I would have ordered one or two if the headlights where it the right place. I am glad I passed on these. These are fine engines, but for the price I am starting to think that Lionel really does not care anymore about accuracy or custom rail sounds. All rail sounds now are all the same, gone are the days when the cab number was announced.

I preordered the new FEF-3 and if the rail sounds are generic I will cancel it. Same goes for the SD60's. 

 

I purchased the KCS 6-82214, the Southern Belle simply because I wanted a Legacy unit and I missed out on a few opportunities to purchase one. The naked KCS, 6-82213, would look nice behind the Southern Belle (painted). I am debating on pulling the trigger on the Lionel 6-82213 vs. the, BNSF, ES44 Lionel 6-82205.

What do you all think - any feedback is appreciated.

K

>>>Lionel lost three orders from me on those, because the MTH Premier offerings were approx. $100 less expensive (per locomotive) for basically the same class of product.    That's why it's so great to have competitive offerings in the marketplace.  <<<<

 

If the quality of horn and engine sounds on the MTH version of the SD60E are as outstanding as the P-3 SF E-6' set  I received last week from Pats trains you made a wise choice.  For me, it opened the door for more MTH motive power in the future.. 

I was more then surprised, call it shocked at sound improvement over past P-2 issues of the same engine.    IMO, they're on par, maybe even better then Lionels version of the same set .  Hundreds less in price with two extra motors and a B unit to boot.

I can't say enough good things about it..  For me, it was the buy of the year.

Joe

 

 

 

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