Lionel “Simulated stainless steel metallic finish?” Major disappointment!

It's the "Built-To-Order" RISK you make when you purchase without seeing the train first.

We all take that risk when we advance order hoping that the catalog drawing and description are as we envision and believe it to be.

AS another forumite said in another thread

"Another disappointment for me from Lionel. I am glad I have learned not to trust the product descriptions in the catalogs and NOT preorder. "

"Momma always said Lionel was like a box of choc-lates...you never know what you're gonna get."

+1

To GRP24...i laughed at your response enough to make my jaw sore....good stuff. The BTO idea is understandable, yet I'd rather see, touch, feely the product.

Somebody needs to take that silver paint away from them.  😂

I feel for you - and not least at that price. Lionel’s issues with painted metallic finishes go back even longer than before they stopped offering aluminum body cars. They’ve never done any finishes that rival the plating MTH does.

But to tell the truth, I don’t think that these days any 3 rail 0 scale importer does. GGD’s painted metallic finishes are nice and photograph as though they were shiny metal but in the flesh it’s clear that it’s paint.

Why aren't you returning your purchase to your dealer if you're not satisfied?  Let your dealer and Lionel fight it out. I would think your dealer wants you to be happy and have your future business.

Nothing will change until folks start hitting Lionel in the wallet. Return em 

Charles Ro should make it right! Give them a call.

Not to defend it, and I can see the disappointment (sorry you are not happy with your train - that always sucks!), but if Lionel was actually going to plate them for real, I would assume they would be sure to brag about that in the catalog text. 

The fact that it said "simulated" metal finish would have made me immediately assume it would be painted.

Agreed the MTH plating is nice.  It's apparently a huge deal to get that right though (or at least it was years ago).  I recall a discussion with am MTH rep at York (possibly around the time the AEM-7 "toasters" with passenger cars and/or the Plated R11/R34 subway sets came out) stating how difficult the process had been.  Maybe it got better in terms of producibility though , because they seem to still offer items from time to time.

-Dave

BETTER clarification of specs would be more helpful for ALL items offered.

If it's unused and in original condition, I'm fairly confident Ro will accept it for refund.  If not, you've got a beautiful train albeit one that doesn't meet your expectations, realistic or not.  Suspect you can sell it at close to your cost at some point, if that's your wish. One example why some folks should simply not pre-order products if they have very specific expectations not described in the catalog or promised by the vendor.  Better to see what it looks and performs like to make sure it's what you want.  Sympathies for your disappointment.

AlanRail posted:

It's the "Built-To-Order" RISK you make when you purchase without seeing the train first.

We all take that risk when we advance order hoping that the catalog drawing and description are as we envision and believe it to be.

AS another forumite said in another thread

"Another disappointment for me from Lionel. I am glad I have learned not to trust the product descriptions in the catalogs and NOT preorder. "

It's BTO or not built at all. I wouldn't build a lot of expensive things merely in the hope that we will buy them, either. Pre-ordering is really BTO, anyway - "not enough orders so we cancelled the item" - wouldn't you?

There used to be a tiny selection of take-it-or-leave-it items in this hobby. People had tiny "collections". They'd buy almost anything, and be grateful for it. Consumerism was vastly different.

Big time bummer. For that amount of bucks I would expect to be able to shave from the reflection off the stainless plating. 

I'm not sure, but I don't think that $2,600 train sets were ever really intended for 3-rail.  You won't catch me pre-ordering such a set, nor even buying same after they're out on the market.  Unless it was 110% EXACTLY what I wanted.  And even if it were, I'd have to think long and hard before committing to that kind of money.

But that's just me.  Your bank account may vary. 

FCAVOLO-Send the set back If you are un happy. Demand a refund. It's just not worth the aggravation. Nick 

These cars are plastic, not aluminum ?

Arthur posted:

These cars are plastic, not aluminum ?

Lionel ceased production of aluminum cars some time ago.

Rusty

Those look Horrible

I’ve seen this sort of thing occasionally, as a cosmetic finish for elevator doors etc. However it would look pretty awful in modelling, the “grain” effect from the brushing is FAR too large

http://owencoyle-anodising.co.uk/2018/05/23/sss/

I was interested in getting this CP set at least the passenger cars as the GGD ones are not to be had

  Some pics would be helpful but with the current Lionel quality control and research team at the helm, I dont think I would be impressed either

  Lionel needs to fire all the colour blind executives in charge of production as they have had a very poor record of  “getting it right” on some of their recent offerings

  Its a sad situation when you pay the big bucks for a model that has glaring problems

   Thats why I dont hesitate to repaint the models I have to a more prototypical livery

Al

Not waving a Lionel flag but --- I just saw this set on display and thought it looked really nice

However I know nothing about the promise of stainless steel finish - and I certainly understand "not what I was expecting" - I've been there  

Seems like the only answer to all this is wait and see when it comes out - but then it's fingers crossed that you can get one

Seems like the main difference between the BTO philosophies between Lionel and 3rd Rail is that those in charge at 3rd serm to be watching carefully what is coming out of the Asian factories.  And Scott himself is interactive with this blog.

And paint colors.  Surely Pittsburgh, SW, DuPont, historical societies, museums, railroads, or individuals have paint chips somewhere.  With various lighting systems and kelvin levels, the item may look "different".  But it should be balanced to daytime lightning.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Seems like the main difference between the BTO philosophies between Lionel and 3rd Rail is that those in charge at 3rd serm to be watching carefully what is coming out of the Asian factories.  And Scott himself is interactive with this blog.

And paint colors.  Surely Pittsburgh, SW, DuPont, historical societies, museums, railroads, or individuals have paint chips somewhere.  With various lighting systems and kelvin levels, the item may look "different".  But it should be balanced to daytime lightning.

And,,,,,,,,,,,,,most importantly, Scott Mann actually solicits help from those experts in the field, plus historical societies. Lionel just doesn't seem to request/consult technical assistance in such matters.

Can anyone post pics of these cars...

I feel for you guys.  My hobby is building stuff, so I am not as troubled by all this.  My Budd and lightweight Pullman cars are all polished aluminum.  One of my PAs is nickel silver.

However, there are some stunning metal-like paints coming on line - one of them is a French product that was featured on the 2-rail forum maybe a year ago.  Alclad II also springs to mind.

justin p posted:

Can anyone post pics of these cars...

I've ordered the cars but have not yet received them. I'd like to see some pics too.

Until pics are forthcoming, closest I've seen is a recent video where Eric Seigel shows them still in the box, behind cellophane.

Minute 2:11 of the following video . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...BNO-cX6qU&t=381s

Sorry I stumbled across this thread as I'd likely have been happier with the cars had I not seen it. 

I have a set of Golden Gate's "The Canadian" passenger cars.

I was thinking of adding Lionel's station sounds diner to the consist but from what I'm reading now, not sure it will fit in look wise. Can anyone tell me if it will stand out, like it doesn't belong with the Golden Gate cars ?

The sheen on this Sunset/3^rd Rail Santa Fe F-7 looks very realistic to me. Anything shinier would look like a mirror, and would be too reflective, in my opinion.

MELGAR

Here is the new SF StationSounds car if that helps. The bottom picture is the new SF Dome SS car on the left and the El Capitan SS diner Aluminum one on the right.

Arthur

  It looks like it might appear to be more of a flat finish to your Canadian cars.

   You wont know for sure unless you get one and it will be up to to decide if it is acceptable or not

   Terry

  I think you should be fine with having a complete set of these cars. I am disappointed that they are not aluminum like the original K-Line production 

   Having said that, I would still like to acquire a set of these as a stand in for the coveted GGD Canadian set Im missing 

Al

I never trust anyone’s catalog pictures until I can see it for real. Some things look better in person than in the catalog.  Unfortunately that wasn’t the case for you.  Unless I really wanted the set I would return it. 

Here is another one next to my 21" Burlington Northern from 2 years ago. It's the same finish. Hope that helps folks.

I mentioned this in the Big Dome thread, but it seems the dome had an "Amtrak" style diaphragm.  Should it be like the one on the diner to the right?

Ans speaking of paint, Lionel needs to look at real items in the field.  Heard there are paint issues on the N&W J.  Err, 611 is not that far of a drive or plane ride from their HQ.  One the J is an icon, both in its own right, and in Lionel's postwar DNA.

I confidently pre order from Scott Mann. I have ATSF Super Chief cars on order and I know they will be beautiful and built as described.  I really want to have that same level of confidence in Lionel but that is simply not possible.  Scott Mann is the benefactor of Lionel's inability to produce what they advertise. After seeing the finish on the dome car I now have $1300 that I would have given to Lionel that will go to Scott Mann. 

I don't want to be critical but threads like this are very subjective and provide a let's pile on opportunity for some. A few thoughts:

1) as d500 notes, if no one buys BTO, there is no BTO. We need to get real on this.

2)As spsf says, this thread is pointless without pictures. Looking at bnsf Matt's posts, I don't get it.

3) stainless comes in a ton of finishes and who knows for sure how many were on the prototype during various periods. Does anyone really think no one at lionel investigates these things? Even GGD gets a few mixed comments.

sorry the OP was disappointed but there is a lot of subjective opinion here.

The CP cars I have on order are headed right to my painter for VIA Rail conversion.

Hokie the pic Matt posted, to my eye, makes it clear.  The big dome appears to be painted silver. It looks nothing like sheets of metal like the real cars or for that manner the el Cap dining car posed next to it. No matter how you slice it the cars do not have a metallic SS finish as advertised. 

Scott also parks his butt at the factories regularly and is directly involved in every step. Lionel just doesn't do that.

I have no problem Preordering/reserving stuff from 3rd Rail/GGD because I know it will come out how they say it will.

Just the other day Scott told me in an email he is making sure they use the same batch of paint on the NP North Coast Limited passenger cars and the separate NP F3 run they are doing. Stuff like that is true attention to detail