Lionel Standard Gauge 402E Pendulum Reverse Unit.

The 1933 Lionel parts listing shows the E-Unit as part number E402E-3:

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/1933/147.pdf

Unfortunately, I have not located a breakdown of this part. I have found a picture of an assembled unit in the 1931 Replacement Parts listing.

There is a discussion here with similar units:

https://ogrforum.com/...endulum-reverse-unit

A Lionel wiring Diagram is found here:

https://ogrforum.com/...rse-unit-early-260-e

Thank you for the quick response, Bmoran4. I am familiar with the schematic you posted and have previously reviewed the post you referred me to. The pendulum unit and motor presented in that post do not appear to be the same as in the 402E as far as I can tell, and the material has not proven to be helpful to me. Perhaps I am missing something in the post. Wouldn't be the first time. 

Will remain hopeful for additional assistance.

Much thanks, swede

Maybe share a picture of what you do have for a reversing unit? It may jog my or others memories...

Bmoran4, thanks. The engine is at the owner's house and it may take me a couple days to collect it from him. I will  then take a photo and post it.

Thank you, swede

As a follow up, I have never seen a photo of the 402E reverse unit on the internet.

swede

@rrswede posted:

As a follow up, I have never seen a photo of the 402E reverse unit on the internet.

swede

I can provide a scan of a few photos from a book that I have.  I also have a few of those units in my repair shop and I did figure out how to take it apart and reassemble it - a very annoying procedure.  Maybe I can get some good photos.

It may take me until tomorrow to get something to you.  

mlaughlinnyc, thank you very much for the offer. I would really appreciate that. I have been unable to travel to the owner's home to take photos but still have plans to do that and post them.

My regards, swede

mlaughlinnyc, I found a couple photos courtesy of trainz on the internet and posted them here. 

On one photo, I placed an arrow to a small rivet. One end of the  "centering spring" passes over the rivet and is crimped under a small clip. At the center of the small rivet, too small for me to view, is there some small device to provide a second securing position to that end of the "centering spring" or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Also, since you indicated you have repaired these units, do you happen to have any parts you would be willing to sell, should my friend need them? We have already purchased some parts if required and as shown in one of Jeff Kanes  photos.

Thank you for assisting

swede

Parts are not really made currently.
A few are available from The train Tender. Best you can hope for would be finding used parts Via the internet and the big auction sites

OR just replace that pesky pendulum unit with a conventional three-position E-Unit for which parts are readily available. Mechanical authenticity vs. the successful operation of the loco should be an obvious choice.

Southern Crescent 2 and Tinplate Art, thank you for responding. If I was the owner, I'd lock it in forward and be done as opposed to returning it to the Rube Goldberg reverser it is. However, the owner has a different mentality and is a stickler for originality. Hopefully we will get things sorted out.

Harry and Jeff both carry the same parts. In speaking with Jeff, he indicated he had never worked on a Pendulum Reverse unit. Just sold the parts.

swede

Try Henning's for advice and/or service for that pendulum unit. Some repair jobs are best left to the pros.

It's a touchy piece of equipment, but here are some links that should help. 

https://ogrforum.com/...endulum-reverse-unit

https://ogrforum.com/...ndulum-reverse-units

Tinplate Art, thanks for the tip. I have not called Harry to see if the shop would repair the unit, but may have to resort to doing that. 

Firewood, also, thanks. I have reviewed these in the past and they do not apply to this version of the reverser.

swede

 

Firewood, also, thanks. I have reviewed these in the past and they do not apply to this version of the reverser.

swede

Thanks Swede - looking forward to you updates. I'm not familiar with your model. 

Will respond when I have something more to report. 

swede

There is a source of drawings and operational details of the pendulum reverse unit, but it's expensive.  It's Greenburg's new (2017) book on early O gauge.

This book has two full pages of drawings, photos and text that show clearly how the pendulum reverse works.  I'm using it for a couple of those units I have but may stop after doing one, which I'm sure I can do with the material in the book.  The big obstacle for many is that the price is $100.  It's well worth the price for someone like myself who buys, repairs and sells prewar Lionel, both O and Standard.

Thank you.

Spendy little devil! Don't think I will search for a copy. Will probably never attempt a look see at a similar reverse unit again in my remaining lifetime.

swede

Those units are really pesky little devils! Hopefully, Henning's may be able to do the repair. If not, replacing it with a three-position unit may be necessary, OR just leave it as an authentic "shelf queen"!

@Tinplate Art posted:

Those units are really pesky little devils! Hopefully, Henning's may be able to do the repair. If not, replacing it with a three-position unit may be necessary, OR just leave it as an authentic "shelf queen"!

Shelf Queen doesn't exist in this owner's vocabulary. Someday he may be willing to accept it running forward only.

swede

@rrswede posted:

Shelf Queen doesn't exist in this owner's vocabulary. Someday he may be willing to accept it running forward only.

swede

Do it as a temporary forward only  There's always hope for finding a fix.  A new (after 1935 or so) E-unit would fit in the pendulum reverse space.

mlaughlinnyc, thanks. Anything I did for him other than get it operational as originally intended would have to be temporary. 

With respect to using the conventional Lionel "E" unit, can it fit without removing the locking lever?

swede

@rrswede posted:

mlaughlinnyc, thanks. Anything I did for him other than get it operational as originally intended would have to be temporary. 

With respect to using the conventional Lionel "E" unit, can it fit without removing the locking lever?

swede

E-units were made with several different locking lever configurations.  Look at photos of those on sale on eBay and you will see most of them.  

I've never seen a 402 but it looks similar to th 42 that I'm now rewiring.  IT has room between the two motors where I could mount an e-unit instead of the reverse switch.  The main skill requirement is enough metal bending aptitude to make a bracket for it.

In any event, wire the unit to a motor and test it before getting into building the mount.

Thank you, mlaughlinnyc. I do have several different configurations but all have the locking lever attached.

swede

...I wonder what ever became of this project...? 🤔

Mark in Oregon

Sounds like the owner could have been a tad more flexible given that his friend was going the extra mile to get his loco operating!

@rrswede posted:

mlaughlinnyc, I found a couple photos courtesy of trainz on the internet and posted them here.

On one photo, I placed an arrow to a small rivet. One end of the  "centering spring" passes over the rivet and is crimped under a small clip. At the center of the small rivet, too small for me to view, is there some small device to provide a second securing position to that end of the "centering spring" or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Also, since you indicated you have repaired these units, do you happen to have any parts you would be willing to sell, should my friend need them? We have already purchased some parts if required and as shown in one of Jeff Kanes  photos.

Thank you for assisting

swede

I helped Bruce write that chapter in his book on the pendulum reverse units.  The straight spring is secured under the square plate and passes through the slot in the moveable fingers.  The rivet mentioned above has nothing to do with the spring.  The key is to center the spring so that the arms center themselves when they are pushed and released in each direction.  There is a locknut on the front of the contact board that must be removed so that the pivot screw can be loosened.  When the two haves are removed, check the contact surfaces on the contact board and the condition of the fingers on the back board.  A good cleaning is usually required.  The coil is grounded by a rocking plate above the field laminations and a contact strip connected to one side of the coil through a wafer switch to lock the reverse unit in one direction (the other side is connected to the center pickup terminal).  The ground is completed when de-energized and the magnetic attraction pulls the plate to the field when power is applied but only after the reverse sequence is actuated, opening the circuit to the pendulum coil in an effort to reduce spurious operation.  I just rebuilt two this week in O gauge 251E’s.

@Jon G posted:

I helped Bruce write that chapter in his book on the pendulum reverse units.  The straight spring is secured under the square plate and passes through the slot in the moveable fingers.  The rivet mentioned above has nothing to do with the spring.  The key is to center the spring so that the arms center themselves when they are pushed and released in each direction.  There is a locknut on the front of the contact board that must be removed so that the pivot screw can be loosened.  When the two haves are removed, check the contact surfaces on the contact board and the condition of the fingers on the back board.  A good cleaning is usually required.  The coil is grounded by a rocking plate above the field laminations and a contact strip connected to one side of the coil through a wafer switch to lock the reverse unit in one direction (the other side is connected to the center pickup terminal).  The ground is completed when de-energized and the magnetic attraction pulls the plate to the field when power is applied but only after the reverse sequence is actuated, opening the circuit to the pendulum coil in an effort to reduce spurious operation.  I just rebuilt two this week in O gauge 251E’s.

As did I Jon G..... This was a comprehensive writing, and a chore IIRC.  So many rabbit holes to explore.

Have rebuilt a lot of these in the past few years...