Lionel Transformers

Essentially all AC transformers ever made are ProtoSound compatible except the CW-80 and its brethren. Of course, a whistle and bell button are beneficial for activation of features.

Here is a recent manual. Go to page 45.

Note: Very early PS1 and QSI do not play well with the Z-500/750/1000. Some issues can also arise with the MRC DualPower 027 (wired handheld throttle).

Thank you!

I'm not very electrically inclined, I wish I could buy fast trip breakers in a breaker box wired up and ready to go that I can install in front of the ZW.  

pdxtrains posted:

Thank you!

I'm not very electrically inclined, I wish I could buy fast trip breakers in a breaker box wired up and ready to go that I can install in front of the ZW.  

Have you considered investing in a few Lionel 91 breakers?

https://www.tandem-associates....el_trains_91_acc.htm

Mitch 

Morning, wondering why CW-80 is incompatible? , i have been running MTH ES44 ps3  in conventional and using remote commander with my CW-80 for a year. works very well.  is this going to damage my engine?.  thanks.    

I used to run several P1 and P2 engines of an old postwar ZW with no extra anything added.  The ZW did have an updated internal breaker in it though as it was professionaly rebuilt.   Never had any issues, even when a car jumped the track and shorted. But I am also right there with hands on the throttle levers when running, so power was cut right away when the derailment happened.  If I was leaving trains run without being right there at the throttle, then I would have to seriously think about fast acting seperate breakers on each of the track feed lines.     Mike

cshaf posted:

Morning, wondering why CW-80 is incompatible? , i have been running MTH ES44 ps3  in conventional and using remote commander with my CW-80 for a year. works very well.  is this going to damage my engine?.  thanks.    

The way the Lionel circuitry works to modulate/reduce the voltage drastically changes the waveform of the output voltage in a manner that is not properly recognized by the MTH electronics (search for the innumerable discussions, comments and opinions on this matter here and elsewhere). MTH locomotives are happiest with "pure" sine waveforms (or equivalent from Z-4000). A special case exists with the Z-500/750/1000 waveforms which are apparently close enough.

This is mainly a conventional problem. If you are using the DCS remote commander, you not running conventionally. 

As far as I know, using the CW with MTH does not damage the engine, but can cause erratic or undesired behavior such as never leaving startup mode. Certain mid-90s engines were designed to recognize if the incompatibility was present and go silent.

thanks for info,will research  further . this is set up in passive mode so yes im running conv. and remote.

I find the ZW-L to be the way to go.

Überstationmeister posted:

cshaf posted:

Morning, wondering why CW-80 is incompatible? , i have been running MTH ES44 ps3  in conventional and using remote commander with my CW-80 for a year. works very well.  is this going to damage my engine?.  thanks.    

The way the Lionel circuitry works to modulate/reduce the voltage drastically changes the waveform of the output voltage in a manner that is not properly recognized by the MTH electronics (search for the innumerable discussions, comments and opinions on this matter here and elsewhere). MTH locomotives are happiest with "pure" sine waveforms (or equivalent from Z-4000). A special case exists with the Z-500/750/1000 waveforms which are apparently close enough.

This is mainly a conventional problem. If you are using the DCS remote commander, you not running conventionally. 

As far as I know, using the CW with MTH does not damage the engine, but can cause erratic or undesired behavior such as never leaving startup mode. Certain mid-90s engines were designed to recognize if the incompatibility was present and go silent.

My understanding is that the CW-80 at full throttle is ok in a DCS application, but it does not work well as a conventional transformer for MTH trains.

George

I run mth ps3 engines with lionel cw 80 (conventional) no problems at all......also use z-1000 transformers.  both work very well. 

Interesting. I assumed these had some sort of onboard voltage regulation that would handle the chopped sine wave from the CW. 

Back to the KW goes my S2. 

Which model is the later? Is the G in front of the model number the newer/better model or is the model without the G  preferred?

GVDobler posted:

Which model is the later?

G. 2006 & up.

Some would say there isn't a desirable model of the CW-80.

 Never had any issues, even when a car jumped the track and shorted. But I am also right there with hands on the throttle levers when running, so power was cut right away when the derailment happened. 

Adding external breakers and TVS devices are cheap insurance.
Maybe it will be the next time a car derails and a board damaging spike occurs.

PDXTrains,

   I am one of those people who thinks there is no desirable model of a CW-80.  This is not a slam on Lionel, they make lots of other great transformers.  As Marty indicated the modern ZW-L is one great one the old ZW and KW are great also.  Use the 10 Amp Breakers with them. If you must use the CW-80 use it for a bumper Car line or a street Car line, the old KW is still better for that also.  Never leave a CW-80 Transformer plugged in and unattended however.

You can purchase the good 10 Amp Resettable Breaker Banks from Train Electrics LLC  call them at (231) 631-0447, easy to use and very reliable, delivered right to your front door.

PCRR/Dave

Resettable 10 Amp Resettable Breaker Panel just to the right of the DCS Hand Held Remote Controls, in the picture below.   I have 4 sets of these reliable Breaker Banks and I use them between all my Transformers, modern one's included and TIU's, on the Red Line powering the mid Tracks on my layouts, thru out the Train room.  

"Resettable 10 Amp Resettable Breaker Panel just to the right of the DCS Hand Held Remote Controls, in the picture below.   I have 4 sets of these reliable Breaker Banks and I use them between all my Transformers, modern one's included and TIU's, on the Red Line powering the mid Tracks on my layouts, thru out the Train room. "

In practice, how often do you have to reset these breakers? 

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

PDXTrains,

   I am one of those people who thinks there is no desirable model of a CW-80.  This is not a slam on Lionel, they make lots of other great transformers.  As Marty indicated the modern ZW-L is one great one the old ZW and KW are great also.  Use the 10 Amp Breakers with them. If you must use the CW-80 use it for a bumper Car line or a street Car line, the old KW is still better for that also.  Never leave a CW-80 Transformer plugged in and unattended however.

You can purchase the good 10 Amp Resettable Breaker Banks from Train Electrics LLC  call them at (231) 631-0447, easy to use and very reliable, delivered right to your front door.

PCRR/Dave

Resettable 10 Amp Resettable Breaker Panel just to the right of the DCS Hand Held Remote Controls, in the picture below.   I have 4 sets of these reliable Breaker Banks and I use them between all my Transformers, modern one's included and TIU's, on the Red Line powering the mid Tracks on my layouts, thru out the Train room.  

Thanks for that info! Train electrics no longer has a website. Phone only now? Also, is ten amps sufficient? I thought we should be running 5 amp breakers on these old transformer?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Some would say...

The ones that work are very desirable, plenty powerful, and have some nice features.