Lionel Vision Line Announcement

Those that aren't happy with this offering can wait for the MTH one.

So, a high end model with a light on the pantagraph simulating High Voltage arching while sliding down an imaginary catenary?.........interesting.

The imaginary catenary goes well with imagining that the third rail isn't there. And imagining that the lobster claws are scale.

The absolutely, very best summary of OGR as a whole.

 

No matter what any of the companies do or announce, you will see the same comments  (and usually from the same people).

 

Even the esteemed Alan Miller predicted and seconded my comment  in the official announcement thread up top, when I made the joke about getting my popcorn ready to watch entertainment that would be OGR for a while.

 

 

It has been entertaining watching all the experts.

 

Me, I'm just over here playing with my trains and enjoying the fun and frivolity of OGR.

 

I think I'll get out my Daylight Cab Forward to pull my Phantom II cars around the pike.

Just watched the video.  1st and foremost, why is it shot in portrait?  Why, why, why, why, why!!?!?  It is so unprofessional to do so?  And the meeting was so dry too, there wasn't any hype or emotion from the Lionel folks or the crowd.  That's rather telling on how it's going to get received.  Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Lionel will sell what they need to of it, but I'm sure it'll be no where near what they sold of the Big Boy.

 

Do I want one, heck yes, after hearing the sounds of it running along the cantenary, bumping over the joints.  But unless the street price is under $1k, I'll be keeping my wallet closed at this time.  Being he said more than once that it'll be lower than the BB, and that the BB was MSRP $2800, they could ask $2750, but I don't think it worth more than $1200 MSRP.  Like I said before, I have the K-Line GG1, and since it can handle my small layout, and I already have the VL BB and a MTH T-1 that have to share my one very small O72 loop, I don't need yet another O72 only beast.  If they could of made it O48, awesome.

But I look forward to the videos once people get them, and Eric's detailed review if he orders one (He just got the MTH set, so I'm not holding my breath.).  But those that order one, I hope you enjoy them to the fullest, I'll be wishing I could join you.

Have never owned a GG! in any scale and I am hot starting with this one

 

Gunny

So after almost 40 yrs., Lionel is stepping to the plate with a Conrail G

 

The 3rd Rail GG1 is really the standard/bar - How much better will the Lionel version be?

I'm surprised Lionel is promoting such a toy like feature on such a high end   prototypical model.  Sparking LEDS without a catanary ????

Could be this goofy feature was influenced by the upcoming "Star Wars" movie..

Sounds like they're running out of idea's..

For me, a big disappointment.   

Joe

 

Did Lionel realize the people that own the JLC version are satisfied and they should have not done this? It is a shame, not that many might get sold... Since this will be a built to order, the price on the bay will be super low or high, saew a VL big boy going for under 1,500!. Just buy that not the GG-1.

Although that's quite a spread, I think you are probably pretty close in the count here. I am a Western Road fan (living in the Midwest) and not really a GG1 fan, but I think this has a lot of potential and there are lots of good selling points to these GG1's.

 

Many people like the GG1

I believe it was an award winning design by a famous designer (could be wrong here?) 

They ran in the East (many more model railroaders in the East)

They were PRR (and then other Eastern road names) and there are many PRR fans

Many will buy it because it is Lionel (lots of loyal Lionel only fans)

Many will buy it because it's Vision Line (lots of Vision Line fans too)

 

And probably more that I missed here, but I think it will do well for Lionel and their dealers, IMO.

 

Forgot one more good selling point, it's all die-cast which seems to be highly desirable to lots of folks too.

Posted by MTN:

 

The number of people using live catenary is practically nil.  New tooling for #4800 "Old Rivets" which wore a wide variety of paint schemes during its lifetime.  Two faced CNJ Baldwins are cool engines, but you're looking at a tiny number of potential sales compared to a GG-1; 3RD Rail would be your best bet for those Baldwin beauties...

 

=======

 

That was my point - fancy (too wide?) pantographs to Nowhere. I realize that the Amtrak scheme is prototypical, and still very, ah, esthetically challenged.

======

As to the Two-Face CNJ Baldwins, MTH (and others) have produced more than one oddball, one-off/few-off items. PRR 6-8-6, for example. Jawn Henry/C&O Turbine. The double-ended Baby-Faces are noteworthy. They wouldn't sell like F-3's (again, a Warbonnet version, at least for comic relief?), but what does, besides NYC Hudsons?

 

Much of the basic body tooling could also be used to produce more tooling for the "One-Face" Baby-Faces, and various versions of those were owned by the NYC, along with the CNJ and the GM&O. A couple of others, I think.

 

They would sell; same trucks as the Alco DL-109, etc.

 

 

My JLC 4925 in the green single stripe scheme has the modern high mount intakes, but I believe the models of earlier paint scheme had them down low on the carbody as they were built.  Other than the addition of the riveted carbody for the 4800 models, legacy, and the sparking pantographs, these seem to be basically an exact duplicate of the JLC model (which had dual speakers and RS 5.0).

 

The other feature they mentioned, the non-rigid pantographs, is a modification I believe I could easily make to my JLC model in about 5 minutes if I had the desire.

Just another one of the many great things about our hobby, it really gives your imagination a chance to excel and promotes creativity.

Many of you seem to have overlooked the fact that Vision line was a way for Lionel to try new ideas. It has worked well for them. Some will like the new some won't. But it will sell.

JC642 posted:

 

“Sparking LEDS without a catenary ????"

 

Just to be clear, this will spark with or without a Catenary. The benefit of not having to run off of live Catenary is obvious ever since TMCC came about.

 

The difference that really needs to be asked is that on the very fine JLC version, the pantographs were not flexible, so running under wires, live or unpowered, proved to be an issue. Will the new GG1 be able to run under wire with flexible pantographs?

 

Charlie

Yes, according to the release.  The pantographs are on tough springs that allow them to move and even be pushed down without harm when they are in the up position.

At the height of my train mania, about 10 years ago, I had 7 scale GG1s: 4 JLC and 3 Premier, including the sought after BiCentennial version. The thing about scale GG1s is that they look a bit funny going around O-72 curves...I found they need really broad curves to look decent. I've since sold them all for that reason.

Well, that was a quick answer, thank you EscapeRocks.

 

I guess that answers that question about running under wire.

 

Sparks with or without a catenary system in place.

 

Charlie

I cannot get this video to work. Any other way to view it? 

 

I would be in for old rivets and an Amtrak,but I bet you guys are way low on price... So I will probably not want to buy two. If it ends up in the low $1000s I might. But seeing how they have been pricing stuff, would you really be surprised if it was over $2000?  If so then I might not want to buy even one. 

 

Thanks,

 

Ben

You're welcome.  I'd happened to just come across that answer right before I saw your question.

 

Here is a better video of the vision line GG1...
http://youtu.be/kWJjUBQZKbE

My JLC five stripe, which is a really nice piece, will continue to suit me just fine. 

 

Bob

Nothing would really surprise me these days.  But as a reality-check, I saw Grzyboski had a VL Big Boy at York yesterday for $1850 -- marked "one only".  Also remember this year's non-VL Y6b carried a $1999 MSRP, and Charlie Ro had them at York for $1395.

 

Whether you're a GG1 enthusiast or not, few folks are gonna want to pay more for them than the going rate for articulated steamers.  There's just no comparison in terms of detail and feature-set.  None whatsoever.

 

David

The THUD you hear is how the gg1 has gone over with buyers. I have not talked to one person yesterday at York and will talk to more today who says they will buy the new gg1.

 

Most think it is the wrong item for a VL product and I agree. Sparking pantos-----really??

If Lionel would co-release a realistic and easy to install catenary system along with the new GG1s I would probably bite the bullet, assuming I can work out the finances.

What THUD?    My LHS has 7 calls the day of the release asking when they can order.

Make that,   pans sparking under an imaginary cantanary.. LOL

Joe 

I'm not into electric's, but the model is nice looking, however after seeing the announcement video, the simulated Arc flashing lights seems to just draw your attention away from the model, they just look like two randomly flashing lights and not so much like electrical arching. Why not make the pantographs functional, able to power the model so if someone ever decided to install a catenary system, they would get the arcing naturally? 

That's a great idea. Lionel, are you listening?

No sound?

I thought the Pantographs would function and draw power if you had an overhead cat system for this Vision Line GG1.

No version of this video I have watched has sound. However I have heard back from people who've seen a demo at York that there are enhanced catenary sounds (more than  the sound effects on the JLC version of the GG1). In Lionel's announcement video from the RR museum I thought I detected some sounds of electrical arcing and the pantograph otherwise contacting the overhead wire but I could not be sure. 

 

Also, in the museum video Lionel promised "Easter Egg" or an uncatalogued feature, which has been done with other VL engines. But of course they're not telling anybody what it will be!

Yes... you are correct.  At the York demo yesterday, the fellow placed his microphone near the GG1 so attendees could hear the new effects, since the GG1 was on the center of the display layout on a roller base.  Very nice sound-effect, but again... these are all relatively INCREMENTAL improvements.  Nothing that warrants an extreme price increase beyond the JLC versions.  So we'll just have to wait and see where Lionel sets the price.

 

David

The only "Easter egg" I want to see on any  scale model of the GG1 is for them to put the very obvious large missing handrail on the pilot trucks.

Joe  

This is why I comment the way I do.  To be clear, I have no issue, at all, with those who don't like any particular product.

What gets me are the over-the-top nay saying and histrionics, that sometimes get to the point of ad hominem attacks on the various companies themselves.

 

We (OGR) have chased off heads of companies, before, when threads they announced things in turned very ugly.

 

For me, if I don't care for a new product, I just go about my day.  I won't come here and act like someone demanded I offer up my first born for sacrifice.

 

It always makes me curious why trains, and O-Gauge in particular, attracts the stereotype of the "grumpy old man."

 

I love this hobby. I love playing with my trains whether they are pure toys, or a finely detailed and scale model.

 

It becomes distressing to me, in a general sense, when most of the so called grumpy nabobs of negativity are people in my general age bracket. Yes I am over fifty.

 

Years ago, long before my daughter went off to college, she would read the catalogs with me and get excited.  She had her own 4x8 section of my old large layout where she built her town and ran her stuff.   She'd even read this forum with me until one day she said, "is anyone happy there?"  That came a from a 14 year old.

 

The companies release things I like and want, and things I don't like or want.

I will never take it a s personal affront, as some on OGR seem to do, when it's something I don't like or want.

 

Further, I certainly won't ever come here and spew all kinds of supposed business insight, and call out the decision makers, when I (nor anyone else who doesn't see the books) knows what is driving anything the companies do.

 

I do know how to run a business.  My entire family does.  That doesn't mean I know what Lionel, or MTH or ATLAS, etc.. do and what they need to do to stay in business.

 

Personally I think it'd be funny if Rich created a section called Broken Record."

That way the same five "experts" can have a field day repeating the same thing they've been posting, almost verbatim, every time a new product or catalog is released.  

 

Maybe it's because my life is good, and I get to do what I do, which while is hard work, never seems like it for the hour or two I'm on stage:  I don't sweat the small stuff, and I look at things as more than glass half full.

 

A hobby is the small stuff, in the big picture.

 

Maybe a little bit less vitriol on OGR when someone doesn't like something would be a good thing.

Love the idea of a Broken Record section The experts could rattle on page after page.

How much more can be said about 1 new feature.

"Maybe a little bit less vitriol on OGR when someone doesn't like something would be a good thing."

 

And remember that when you post a caustic, condescending and/or otherwise whining comment about a product, it is likely a product that someone loves as much as you hate it.  A little respect for others and their feelings goes a long way.  You don't lose your membership in the male sex by showing kindness, generosity and compassion .  It is entirely possible to be critical or express disappointment without being disrespectful to the tastes or efforts of others.  We all step over the line occasionally to be sure, but a little effort in this regard would be appreciated by everyone is my guess.

 

 

See: Daylight Cab-Forward.   ha!

 

Seriously, right on.    I'll add that to the short list of things that shouldn't matter to others in a hobby (unless they desire something similar so they learn from it)

which so far contains

1. what someone else likes
2. what someone else buys
3. what someone else pays for an item
4. How someone else runs their trains
5. How someone else modifies their trains, new or old.

 

So, it makes that electrical crackling/arcing sound when the pantographs light up? That's kinda neat.

 

I guess I don't qualify as a modeler .... I just like to play with trains .... albeit expensive scale trains. If the price on these GG1's isn't too high, I think I'll finally be adding one to my very small engine stable.

 

It sure is a classic locomotive. Lionel knows what they're doing by highlighting it, again. lolol

 

Post of the day. Week? Month?