Lionel Vision line Big Boy Coal Collapse Feature

I think you're right.

A feature that I not interested in either.

To each their own

I think it is quite nice.  I'd like it more if it moved up and down more than the half inch or so it moves, but I understand why that is a practical limit.  I won't be buying a V Big Boy in spite of my enthusiasm for this feature (I have a perfectly good JLC version), but I think it is fantastic and I expect it will be on locos I will buy in the future.

I don't have a dog in the hunt - won't be buying one regardless - but IMO it looks GREAT.  My concern would be yet another layer of complexity and another part to fail.  Still, it is slick, and it looks much better than I thought it might.   

Cool idea but in reality ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz.............

The coal depletion is "nice" however, I am not excited about the feature. What is the added cost having that feature? 

 

Bob

Folks want more.  They want their trains to do more to increase the play value.  Lionel innovated to add to the play value.

 

IMO as cool as the coal load is, I really wish they would start making accessories and cars that take advantage of Legacy.  Enhance operating cars and track side items to work with the trains.

 

IMO though, I think we'll see a coaling setup to go with the Big Boy that will enhance the coal load feature.  Don't quote me but I have a funny feeling that the coal load is just the beginning.

I suspect that in normal operation, it'll be like watching the hour hand on a clock.

 

Rusty

I think it is interesting but to me it seems as if it's a feature folks will loose interest in relatively quickly.  

Although I don't have the layout or funds for this big boy, I think the new feature is awesome.  I really like the new fuel dialog sounds and this just adds too it.

 

Also, I agree with Marty, more legacy rolling stock and accessories would be great.  I like take my log dump cars to the sawmill, my aquarium cars to the aquarium, and my vision tank cars need a filling station.  It would be great if Lionel made an accessory that went in tandem with the sounds of the cars.

My initial thought is that this is one more thing to break and another incremental increase in cost. Software limiting the capacity of the locomotive, however sounds like fun.

 

Gilly

A cool feature for sure but not nearly as nice as that classic steamboat whistle last heard in the Lionel FEF.  

Looks wise, the engine is exactly the same with no additional add on details over my JLC BB.   It makes no sense for me to even think about it.

Joe

I personally think the concept is great, but like others here the execution is not very exciting.  I watched Mike demo it at York and it started out well but the decrease stopped after very little movement.  Hopefully Depleting Coal Load Ver 2.0 will simulate much more coal being used.

Frankly speaking, if the Big Boy ONLY had the depleting load as its "defining" standout feature, it would likely be a dud.  However the extra blowdown effects are likely to drum up more interest -- both from a buyer's standpoint as well as visual interest for layout visitors.  But even at that, the novelty may wane after plunking down $2K+ for it and paying the credit card invoice this time next year.  

 

David

I'm in the rather have more steam effects camp.  But I still want the locomotive.

I would rather see a coal auger between the engine and tender, disguise the wireless tether even if with only a flexible rubber tube. This applys to all steam engines that had coal augers. It's rather bare looking with an open space between the two.

Tough Crowd.  What other train manufacturer/importer is adding features like this to their locomotives? 

 

I'd be interested to see what you would come up with as features that are not already on this locomotive.  If not the coal load, then what?  Not being argumentative, but what feature would you make. 

 

A waving engineer?  A non prototypical swinging bell?  Exploding boiler?

 

Seriously though throw some ideas out.  Maybe one will get traction.

 

 

If you haven't figured it out yet, it ain't the features, its the price. 

Lionel seems to again be testing the market above the upper limits of acceptibility where few have been willing to go.

Joe

I didn't ask about the price. So I didn't have to "figure that out".

 

I asked about the features everyone wants.

The coal load feature is not that exciting for me.  On some of the larger layouts would you (or your visitors) even notice the coal depleting?  For me, with 054 curves, it is not a question, I would not be able to run it.  

 

As for features give me everything that comes with a standard Legacy steam engine plus a smoking whistle and I am happy - At this point I don't need anything more.

I understand Marty but that is what most of us are looking at.. I own alot of visionline engines Challenger/Hudson/es44s. None of them where over 1500 .. 2200 street price is just insane..I just bought a brand new samsung refregerator and stove and microwave for that .. I love the blowdown on it though....

Basically, isnt this loco the Vision ATSF except with off-set stack smoke and magic coal load?  If so, then the price issue might be - are the off-set stacks and magic coal load really commensurate with the price increase over the Vision AT&SF?

Frankly, instead of off-set stacks, I really wish Lionel had added cylinder steam and dynamo/injector steam in addition to whistle and blow-down. The dynamo/injector is an auto function (don't need to activate via command) and adds so much more in terms of smoke effect realism.  Said differently, the Vision Challenger actually had more apparent independent smoke effects than this "latest, cutting edge" Vision loco - and for significantly less money. While the big boy has a "wow" factor, if I could find a black Vision Challenger, I would rather own it with its preferred smoke effects.  Just one opinion. 

Peter

Which "Vision ATSF" model are you referring to? The ATSF NEVER had any 4-8-8-4 MODERN ERA simple articulated locomotives. Lionel did produce that very small, early 1900s ATSF Vision Line 2-10-10-2 and being such an old prototype, it was NOT even close in size to a UP Challenger let alone a 4-8-8-4!

>>Basically, isnt this loco the Vision ATSF except with off-set stack smoke and magic coal load?  If so, then the price issue might be - are the off-set stacks and magic coal load really commensurate with the price increase over the Vision AT&SF?<<

 

That SF VL engine was bult from the ground up with all new tooling.

The VL BB is a JLC legacy reissue with new features.

Big difference..

Its up to the market to decide if additional features are worth the added expense.

Joe

Rumor has it that Lionelville houses will have Vision grass growing lawns.

OK, here are some suggestions:

 

1) When offering "smoke blow-down" effects, it would be nice if the feature was done correctly, i.e. the UP Wilson Blowdown Separator system exhausts steam out of the top, forward of the cab, and exhausts dirty/sludgy water/steam out of a chute under the Engineer's side of the cab.

 

2) Reversing valve gear linkage, so the link drops down for forward movement and moves up for reverse movement. This feature would be VERY visible while a model is moving slowly, stopping, and backing up.

 

3) Much more prototypical spacing between the tender and the engine. Even better would be that fantastic adjustable drawbar arrangement Lionel developed for the the Milwaukee S3 4-8-4 models.

 

4) Some sort of "molded rubber tube" assembly between the engine & tender to represent the stoker tube on coal burning steam locomotive models originally equipped with stokers.

 

5) Fully rounded boilers/smokeboxs!

 

6) Synchronized cylinder cock smoke exhaust to coincide with the appropriate exhaust chuff.

 

7) Separate/dual electric motors, so that the front engine is powered by its own motor and is totally independent from the rear engine, thus providing much more realistic drive action (the from engine could occasionally slip, just like the real thing when starting a train).

I did comment strongly the Centipede was not a perfect choice for Vision, and as you noted we still made the product.   Like I stated, I don't select the product or features.  I did however respect the reason we made the Centipede, in that in the grand scheme of things it is a difficult problem to select a loco, Vision"ize" it with cool features, and try and bring it in for a price that folks are willing to pay.  The reasoning for the Centipede, as it was explained to me, seemed right at the time.

 

Maybe we should offer a few Vision "candidates" complete with proposed features and pricing, and let the hobby select the deliverable?  Just a thought.

 >>>didn't ask about the price. So I didn't have to "figure that out".

 I asked about the features everyone wants.<<

 

As I said, theres nothing wrong with that coal load feature, me thinks its pretty cool, same with the swingng bell and the smoke. But if it comes at a cost that pushes pricing over the top, I'd simply rather do without it.

I'm waiting on the day engine and caboose mounted cameras with imiages viewable on Ipad or the remote screens is offered.

Joe   

Jon,

Since you are posting to this thread and we are off topic a little I have 1 word that maybe you can bring back to the marketing guys "Lionmaster"

Oh, I don't know - how about some NEW STEAM LOCOMOTIVES? (NYC H-10, for example.)

 

Lionel could have saved some money and added the depleting oil level to the SP GS-X series, for example: "trust me - it's going down". 

 

Now, if they offer an actual working fuel level gauge on, say, the next AC4400-whetever,

I'm in. This loco would come with a magnifying glass, I would think.

When I first read about the depleting coal load, it was exciting. Then I saw it on the video and rapidly lost interest. It's an attention grabbing advertisement in a market that has re-issues and clones every few years, and the promo has succeeded - it's grabbed our attention. New product features in any hobby make a small but important percentage commit to buying; thus the constant "new and improved" labels on just about every consumer product.  

 

Moving cab figures, even a head turn or an engineer raising an arm would offer infinitely more play value than the moving coal load IMO. At least Lionel is trying to innovate new features, although great sounds, slow-speed control, and whistle smoke features in ALL Lionel engines would be the best marketing strategy they could employ.  

How was this dealt with on the smoking dynamo on the Challenger or the whistles?  Is there not a clogging issue with this?  I'm asking as I don't own any but I have seen the videos ect. 

Jon - Please know that we really appreciate yours and Mike's interaction with the hobby like this.  Hopefully the Lionel 'higher-ups' appreciate the vast pool of knowledge, experience, and suggestions available here on the Forum!

Overall the feeling seems mixed and hopefully that is what Lionel will walk away with. If everyone was excited it would likely find it's way into other engines. Personally, it is not a feature that would steer me in the direction of buying it.......I buy steam engines for their elegant mechanical motion shrouded in steam. In all my years of railfanning I don't believe I ever once monitored a depleting coal load.  

I love the US patent system and how something that is a model of a real life feature can be patented to a particular model company.

"tough (I'll add demanding) crowd" is something of a gross understatement.

As I recall the engine sounds are changed as the coal depletes. I am not sure I would want to deal with that.

 

Bob C.