LIONEL vs WILLIAMS : GP-30

I would be seriously surprised if the Williams model looks anywhere near as good as the Lionel one.  The Lionel model even blows the MTH model out of the water.  If my hunch is correct, your comparison of the two would be like comparing a plastic toy to a fine brass model.  Yes the better model is more expensive.  I hold off judgment until I see detailed pictures of the Williams model.

 

The problem with Lionel is that they always ruin a great model by screwing up an otherwise perfect part of it each time they release it (GP30 rear pilot sticks out since the latest release). 

See great images here ---> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lionel...rksid=p2047675.l2557

Never mind.  Found pics of the Williams unit and I think it looks like a bad cartoon.  Lionel is easily worth over twice the price even if the rear pilot is sticking out.

 

Based on those two photographs, I'm missing the "bad cartoon" part.  Both are sharp-looking units and to a detail person, the Lionel unit wins in this category.  But my point is, the Lionel Geep is not a $500 engine.  Lionel makes a great product, but their modern pricing strategy is outrageous and out-of-reach for many in the hobby like myself.  I had a long conversation with a local Lionel dealer about this a few days ago, and he concurs Bachmann wins with 1) warranty support, 2) parts availability and 3) overall value.  I'm a consumer, not a detail person.  Details appeal to a segment of the hobby, but for this consumer, Lionel is missing the mark.

I don't even look at Lionel anymore. They have priced me out of the market.

BTW, the Williams unit looks fine to me and we all know the reputation for quality that WBB and Lionel have.

IMO Williams wins.

I have a number of Williams engines and none of them look like "bad cartoons".  You might get that impression because of the difference in photo angles between the two photos.  The first is a close up and the second is an angular shot that makes the nose of the engine look out of proportion to the rest of the engine.

 

For reliability, Williams cannot be beat.

 

Earl

This is all a matter of opinion and no one is going to win the argument. I don't think that you can gloss over "legacy and details" quite so quickly. There are a lot of features to list under both of those points that williams simply lacks. My viewpoint is that I now buy ONLY legacy due to the features, details and running characteristics. Yes, they are pricey and I'd agree at times, overpriced. However, I don't view the williams products as a great deal either as they lack all of the bells and whistles that keep a viewer engaged. Just my opinion.

^Exactly.  Both have a place in the market, and neither is for everyone.

At the two-to-one ratio you talk about it is hard to argue with your point that the Williams is the greater bargain.  I'm viewed as a Lonel proponent and I won't try to defend what I view as an  objective perspective on my part: but, I don't have that many diesels, and I'm not certain I want a GP30 although I'm mulling it over, but if I buy one, it will be a Lionel. The additional $200 to $250 its justifiable to me because.

- The sound is a lot better.  I have only heard one new Trueblast loco, and it was good, particularly considered the price, but the most recent conventional and legacy sound is simply fantastic: very dynamic, deep and high pitched sounds, complicated sounds, braking, etc., too - On my U30C I swear I can hear tappets and valves operating at idle!

- cruise.  I run only conventional but I love Odessey II: no surge, kicks in automatically and intuitively, locks in speed perfectly.  Really nice to have.

- slow speed smoothness.  Particuarly with a ZW-L to control them, Lionel locos run much slower, smoothly, than the Williams I haveor have seen.

- detail - to me the detail on Lionel looks a little better in this regard - not much, but a little. Still, this is only my views on my needs.  I realize many people will decide otherwise. 

 

Precisely! It's one mans opinion vs another's and usually no one is easily dissuaded.

These two engines are in different worlds, there's no way to compare them. WBB wins on price, Lionel in every other way.

Let me put in my two cents. I have a Lionel Amtrak HHP that failed. I took it to Nassau Hobby who is a Lionel repair dealer and they told me that the board blew however the part is no longer made. This is a two year old loco. I had an engine put in that only goes forward. Two year old engine and no back up parts. Bye Lionel. Thumbs up Williams.

It appears Lionel and Bachmann have built GP30s of different phases. Lionel's unit is Phase 1 whereas Bachmann's is Phase 2 - note the extension of the cab on the Fireman's side of the Bachmann model.

 

Bob 

You can't compare the potential advantages of a Williams GP-30 to a Lionel Legacy GP-30 unless you are only looking at the check book. Now if you compare a Williams conventional diesel to a Lionel conventional diesel, Williams wins out big time.

And BOTH Models Conductor side Handrails are WRONG.  The Handrail should not drop down outside of the door at the nose.  It should drop down at the Stanchion.

Bachmann's HO model:

 

WBB product has a market niche and it supply's  that market.

 

Now in saying that I would prefer to buy one Lionel item with legacy then 2 WBB engines without. I like engines with legacy sounds and command and right now the WBB don't offer either.

It all depends on your budget and whether you run command all the time. I run primarily conventional and don't need all the bells and whistles, so I'd lean toward the Williams. (Most of my locos are Williams.)

 

If I had an unlimited budget, unlimited space and a full command layout, then I'd go for the Lionel. But, I don't, so I will wait a while (probably a year or two) until the "newness" of the Williams-Bachmann wears off then look to purchase at a better price point. It has been my experience that prices tend to drop after the newness and novelty wear off, but you still get all the nice features at a better price.

I'd also add that by going strictly with Legacy motive power, shouldn't imply an unlimited budget. It simply means that the purchases are more selective.

I've been active in the hobby since 1999 when we purchased our first TMCC loco and Cab-1 set. We now own a total of 12 command locos of which 3 are Legacy. 

Not exactly a fevered buying pace.

 

As some others have stated, I'd rather have one Legacy loco vs. multiple conventional.

We're actually considering selling off the TMCC locos to fund future Legacy locos.

In many ways, an apples to oranges comparison.  Different market niche for different customers.

 

I don't have Legacy; I like to watch the locos run; the superdetailing is appreciated, but not something that I desire.  So I am buying Williams, not Lionel Legacy.  These personal prefs may change down the road, who knows!